# Are doctors really being denied, harassed, or intimidated from using Hydroxychloroquine? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 1, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026 "2020-08-01T21:42:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![txobbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@txobbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txobbin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/1 "2020-08-01T21:42:24Z")
First there was the “America’s Frontline Doctors” video and the kerfluffle about censorship when major media banned it. On Facebook I posted a debunking article “[Don’t Believe These 3 Dangerous Lies from the Viral Stella Immanuel Video](https://www.menshealth.com/health/a33446053/breitbart-stella-immanuel-video-fact-check/?linkId=100000013818883&fbclid=IwAR0mTWR8lcbe7pukTxdrxfeyOG1rO0e96FviRvPJOCCHRLg-26lXijiNGBg).” Immediately I was attacked by a relative whose in-law grandfather had just died from covid 19. The attack devolved into: - He never got a chance to try hydroxychloroquine because his doctor was “too scared” to try it! - Doctors are being denied or intimidated from using Hydroxychloroquine! - People should have the choice to try it! - Then it got political as obviously I was joining all the other lib’rul Trump bashers who didn’t care if people lived or died as long as their agenda was advanced, because, you know, we hate him so much. Then the person deleted all their posts because it was ‘personal’. Okay… I didn’t want to argue with them as they lay to rest a beloved family member. I merely said it comes down to which experts to believe. I was then sent this [video of Dr. Lisa Koche](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrnlF2d3PYQ) as proof that doctors were being denied, intimidated, and harassed for attempting to use the drug. I googled the title of this post and found nothing, other than the Koche video. Being denied due to availability I can understand. Is there proof doctors are being intimidated and harassed? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/2 "2020-08-01T22:44:11Z")
I am neither a doctor or a lawyer. But I believe doctors are legally prohibited from giving patients medications with harmful side-effects if there is no medical justification for prescribing the treatment. If you went to see the doctor, told him you had the flu, and said you felt like a shot of insulin because you feel it would help, he’s not going to give it to you. If your relative feels that laws against giving patients harmful and unneeded medications are intimidation or harassment against doctors, then I feel they have a pretty weak definition of those terms. ---
**Author:** ![txobbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@txobbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txobbin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/3 "2020-08-01T23:12:54Z")
The exact response was that doctor _wanted_ to give it but was **too** **scared**. He was also denied from giving it. No explanation as to how and/or why. Then I got the Koche video. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/4 "2020-08-01T23:19:39Z")
Can’t see the Koche video (removed for violating standards). They did have the Emergency Use Authorization but that didn’t work out so well. [https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/5 "2020-08-01T23:51:37Z")
What does “denied” mean in the sense that it’s being used in this thread? Forbidden from? Excluded from something because they used it in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/6 "2020-08-02T00:15:32Z")
> [@txobbin](#): > > The exact response was that doctor _wanted_ to give it but was **too** **scared**. It’s not a question of being “scared”, is a question of a doctor’s professional responsibility. It’s the exact same issue that Little\_Nemo noted. Doctors have discretion to use any drug that they feel is appropriate _among drugs that have been approved as safe_. They can even use safe drugs “off-label”, i.e. to treat conditions other than those for which the drug has been proven effective. But doctors aren’t scientists, and they don’t get to decide which drugs are safe. That requires rigorous clinical trials, and the FDA is the authority in charge of that procedure. The FDA revoked approval for hydroxychoroquine because it is both ineffective _and unsafe_. [https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and](https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and) If a doctor wanted to prescribe hydroxychoroquine after this, the doctor is an ignorant fool. And if he did so, he would quite correctly face extremely serious consequences. ---
**Author:** ![txobbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@txobbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txobbin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/7 "2020-08-02T00:15:54Z")
Oh my. At first I thought the mods here had removed the video, and I was looking for a warning as to what standard I had broken. **YouTube** has removed the video. “More censorship!” will be screamed. Relative did not explain how the doctor was denied. I asked but didn’t want push the matter, considering the death. In the video Dr. Koche claimed she begged the pharmacy for the drug but was repeatedly told no. Why was not discussed. ---
**Author:** ![txobbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@txobbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txobbin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/8 "2020-08-02T00:30:45Z")
I get that. Sadly it just re-enforces the belief that it’s a conspiracy to make Trump look bad, to hell with the consequences. But but but they just want people to live! To have the freedom to at least try! After all Miss Stella did not lose even one patient! After I said that was a ridiculous statement, I realized I should have said ‘highly suspect.’ Anyway, it was met with silence. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/9 "2020-08-02T00:39:50Z")
I can prescribe hydroxychloroquine to any patient of mine that I feel the net benefit exceeds risk for. It need not be for approved indications. I would need to be able to justify my reasoning if it got investigated, and if I were unable to, the Medical Board could take action. I’d want to especially be wary if there were many warnings out there saying “we don’t think this drug should be used for ‘X’ diagnosis”. But many meds get prescribed for ‘off label’ reasons, which are often sound reasons. Or patients with exceptional circumstances, where in my judgement, benefit outweighs risk. It gets a bit more complex with controlled substances. ---
**Author:** ![txobbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@txobbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txobbin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/10 "2020-08-02T01:16:19Z")
The link in my OP may not work but searching for Lisa Koche on YouTube brings up the video. If anyone’s interested. Did I do the link wrong, or did I violate their standard by trying to link here? Let me try again. [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4goonqzqOE) ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/11 "2020-08-02T01:20:02Z")
I think youtube took it down because the science was questionable, spreading disinformation, something along those lines. This latest link does…but for how long? It was just posted today. 565 views•Aug 1, 2020 ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/12 "2020-08-02T05:50:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > am neither a doctor or a lawyer. But I believe doctors are legally prohibited from giving patients medications with harmful side-effects if there is no medical justification for prescribing the treatment. If you went to see the doctor, told him you had the flu, and said you felt like a shot of insulin because you feel it would help, he’s not going to give it to you. As a nurse of 40+years I’d say you have it exactly right. > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > can prescribe hydroxychloroquine to any patient of mine that I feel the net benefit exceeds risk for. It need not be for approved indications. I would need to be able to justify my reasoning if it got investigated, and if I were unable to, the Medical Board could take action. I’d want to especially be wary if there were many warnings out there saying “we don’t think this drug should be used for ‘X’ diagnosis”. But many meds get prescribed for ‘off label’ reasons, which are often sound reasons. Or patients with exceptional circumstances, where in my judgement, benefit outweighs risk. As the mother of a physician pressed into caring for Covid patients transferred to Ann Arbor from Detroit, this is precisely what he/she told me every time we commiserated about the horrors Trump, et. al were reeking on millions. Continue to listen and treat her kindly, as you are. She may never be able to see past her grief or fear, because that is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/13 "2020-08-02T17:59:02Z")
Isn’t it used for lupus and malaria? It’s been around for a bit no? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/14 "2020-08-02T18:25:26Z")
Yes, and it is still approved for those uses, with warnings about the potential for side effects in certain patients. However, the dosage used for COVID-19 tended to be higher, which increased the side effects. For example, the recommended dose for lupus is 200-400 mg/day. Meanwhile, Gautret’s early study in France used 600 mg/day for ten days to treat COVID-19, and some in vitro studies suggested 800 mg/day would be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/15 "2020-08-02T20:33:14Z")
Rush Limbaugh was touting use of Hydroxy for treatment of Covid the other day, based on a handful of testimonials from doctors he cited. He went on to say the only reason it wasn’t being universally recommended as a treatment was because it was cheap (little profit margin) and the fact that Trump was for it. In other words, the left was continuing to punish Trump for winning the election. Allrighty, then. I wonder if Rush is willing to use unproven methods to treat his lung cancer? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-doctors-really-being-denied-harassed-or-intimidated-from-using-hydroxychloroquine/917026/16 "2020-08-02T20:38:00Z")
Which I’ve mentioned before. The serum concentrations that would be needed to replicate the in vitro anti-viral effects can’t be achieved inside the human body with a safe dose. THIS IS NOT A NEW DRUG OR A NEW IDEA. Hydroxychloroquine has been considered, at one point or another, as a promising candidate for treating pretty much everything and it hasn’t really panned out. This is actually pretty typical of medical research, most promising theories don’t ever amount to anything. It’s not like it was sitting on a self being ignored by the thousands of men and women that devote their lives to medical research until that great medical genius Trump discovered it. But it’s a common and inexpensive compound that most people have never taken - and it is effective for some other conditions. These are the key ingredients for a snake oil scam. And snake oil scams are easy to pull off with a virus that has a 90+ natural recovery rate. Here is a partial list of conditions that someone once thought Hydroxychloroquine might cure, with cites. None of these ever amounted to much of anything either - Bacterial and Fungal infections > **[Europe PMC](https://europepmc.org/article/med/17629679)** > > Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature. Schizophrenia > **[Controlled Trial of Hydroxychloroquine in Schizophrenia : Journal of Clinical...](https://journals.lww.com/psychopharmacology/Abstract/2002/10000/Controlled_Trial_of_Hydroxychloroquine_in.11.aspx)** > > patients were randomized to receive 200 mg/ day hydroxychloroquine or placebo in addition to standard typical antipsychotic treatment. After 8 weeks of double-blind treatment, there was no significant interaction between treatment status and length... Cancer > **[Malaria drugs could help to combat cancer](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320166)** > > Researchers reveal how two drugs used to treat malaria, called chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, could help in the fight against cancer. Flu > **[Chloroquine is effective against influenza A virus in vitro but not in vivo](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4941887/)** > > Background  Chloroquine is an inexpensive and widely available 9‐aminoquinolone used in the management of malaria. Recently, in vitro assays suggest that chloroquine may have utility in the treatment of several viral infections including ... Diabetes > **[effect-of-hydroxychloroquine-on-type-2-diabetes-mellitus-unresponsiveto-more-than-two-oral-antidiabetic-agents-2155-6156-1000771.pdf](https://www.iomcworld.com/open-access/effect-of-hydroxychloroquine-on-type-2-diabetes-mellitus-unresponsiveto-more-than-two-oral-antidiabetic-agents-2155-6156-1000771.pdf)** > > 505.73 KB Leukemia > **[Hydroxychloroquine sensitizes chronic myeloid leukemia cells to Vγ9Vδ2 T...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28339029/)** > > Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is the only autophagy inhibitor in clinical use and it has shown great potential in treating chronic myeloid leukemia (CML). By inhibiting autophagy, HCQ enhances the anti-CML efficiency of chemotherapy. In the present study,... Asthma > **[Hydroxychloroquine in steroid dependent asthma - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2980288/)** > > A recent case report suggested that hydroxychloroquine had a steroid sparing effect in a patient with severe chronic asthma. We have studied the effect of hydroxychloroquine in a group of nine steroid dependent adult asthmatic patients using a... Multiple Sclerosis > **[Hydroxychloroquine in Primary Progressive Multiple Sclerosis - Full Text View...](https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02913157)** > > Hydroxychloroquine in Primary Progressive Multiple Sclerosis - Full Text View. Ebola > **[Lack of Protection Against Ebola Virus from Chloroquine in Mice and Hamsters](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451918/)** > > The antimalarial drug chloroquine has been suggested as a treatment for Ebola virus infection. Chloroquine inhibited virus replication in vitro, but only at cytotoxic concentrations. In mouse and hamster models, treatment did not improve survival.... HIV > **[Effects of Hydroxychloroquine on Immune Activation and Disease Progression...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3821003/)** > > Therapies to decrease immune activation might be of benefit in slowing HIV disease progression.To determine whether hydroxychloroquine decreases immune activation and slows CD4 cell decline.Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial performed...