# Are dogs just domesticated wolves bred to desired specifications - or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 2, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906 "2003-07-02T23:56:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Strychnos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Strychnos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strychnos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/41 "2003-07-05T02:18:32Z")
What’s this pondering whether the dog and the wolf are the same species or not? I learned at a very early age that if two animals can produce offspring that can produce offspring, they are the same species. Period. As far as I know, wolf/dog puppies grow up to be perfectly capable of reproducing. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/42 "2003-07-05T03:39:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by foolsguinea \* > \*\*Yeah, dogs are not quite wolves. Dogs are trash-eaters, largely. Wolves are hunters. \*\* Wolves are hunters in the absence of carrion (trash). Wild wolves will gladly eat trash when they feel safe in doing so. I remember reading that many dogs will not revert to hunting in the absence of “free” food. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/43 "2003-07-05T03:48:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > **I remember reading that many dogs will not revert to hunting in the absence of “free” food.** Why is this? Because most domesticated dogs have never been taught to hunt for food and would never really consider the possibility or becasue something is different about domestic dogs (i.e. something has been permanently bred out of them)? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/44 "2003-07-05T03:53:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*Why is this? Because most domesticated dogs have never been taught to hunt for food and would never really consider the possibility or becasue something is different about domestic dogs (i.e. something has been permanently bred out of them)? \*\* Where did you hear this? I thought it was fairly common in rural areas for previously domesticated dogs without owners or caretakers to go feral and form hunting packs. These packs often do a lot of damage to livestock. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/45 "2003-07-05T03:54:11Z")
My statement was intended to refer to mangeorge’s observation. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/46 "2003-07-05T04:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*Why is this? Because most domesticated dogs have never been taught to hunt for food and would never really consider the possibility or becasue something is different about domestic dogs (i.e. something has been permanently bred out of them)? \*\* And to answer **astro**. Only _some_ dogs didn’t, and if they were loners. Dogs are social, and learn from each other. They are also much braver when in a pack. My memory is pretty vague. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/47 "2003-07-05T04:45:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Strychnos \* > What’s this pondering whether the dog and the wolf are the same species or not? I learned at a very early age that if two animals can produce offspring that can produce offspring, they are the same species. Period. That’s one definition of a species, the Biological Species Concept ( BSC ) ( though you have to actually include the caveat that they do so under “natural conditions” ), but not the only one and it breaks down in a number of situations. Consequently a lot of folks are moving away from it. From example… > [@](#): > > As far as I know, wolf/dog puppies grow up to be perfectly capable of reproducing. \*\* So do wolf/coyote puppies. Or dog/coyote puppies. Or dog/jackal puppies. In fact I believe all of the members of the genus Canis are interfertile. They don’t _usually_ interbreed, but it happens. Wolves and coyotes diverged hundreds of thousands of years ago in North America and nobody considers them the same species today. Nonetheless, there are currently some semi-stable hybrid zones where the two cross ( almost always female coyotes with male wolves ). It is highly likely for instance that the so-called “Red Wolf” is not a full species at all, but a historical anomaly created by human impact - A somewhat unstable population of wolf/coyote hybrids that probably would have been re-absorbed into the parent populations eventually ( this remains a controversial issue, but I’m increasingly convinced for myself that this is likely the case ). So whether two populations of organisms can interbreed is not always the deciding factor in what determines a species. Well, depending who you talk to - Ernst Mayr would at least partially disagree with me ;). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906/48 "2003-07-06T02:06:14Z")
I am still not sure how we could know what led to domestic dogs as we know them in recorded history. We can find out, probalby, by snooping through genes, how critter X becomes happy lap pet Y. I seriously doubt this happened recently enough for their to be reliable evidence of how. And who’s to say that all dogs made their way to dogdom by the same route? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dogs-just-domesticated-wolves-bred-to-desired-specifications-or-not/185906.md?page=2)