# Are dreams better than reality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169 "2016-10-10T19:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/41 "2016-10-12T01:59:38Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I’m saying that given the choice between a world where your desires could come true no matter what, why remain in a reality that is limiting and doesn’t allow you to get what you want? Ok, Why do YOU stay in this reality? The very fact that you are here seems to indicate you have chosen to. Might it have something to do with the fact that the other choice doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/42 "2016-10-12T02:09:54Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Ok, > > Why do YOU stay in this reality? The very fact that you are here seems to indicate you have chosen to. Might it have something to do with the fact that the other choice doesn’t exist? That very well might be the case. It could also be because staying here seems like the “correct” thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/43 "2016-10-12T03:34:26Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > That very well might be the case. It could also be because staying here seems like the “correct” thing to do. Well put it this way: Let’s say I can make a device that triggers the pleasure centres of your brain directly. Every time you press a button you will feel greater happiness than any real – or dream – experience could ever produce. So, we should just sit there pressing this button for the rest of our lives (only pausing to do whatever it takes to keep our body alive)? That should be the goal for all individuals, and for humanity collectively? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/44 "2016-10-12T04:07:25Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > That seems to defeat the goal of living in a physical body. Why not just find a way to never wake up then? Why bother improving your life if you just create a better one at night. Simple - living in a physical body and the experiences we have, in a world of pain and suffering, increases the realms of one’s dreams (and extended to their ‘afterlife’). While we are in the physical world we want to make it good also so we strive for that as well. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/45 "2016-10-12T04:12:42Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Simple - living in a physical body and the experiences we have, in a world of pain and suffering, increases the realms of one’s dreams (and extended to their ‘afterlife’). While we are in the physical world we want to make it good also so we strive for that as well. This answer has already been elegantly refuted as being not an “actual concrete” answer. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/46 "2016-10-12T05:10:16Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > A defining factor of reality is that it pushes back when you prod it; dream realities don’t do that, since both the thing pushing and what appears external to it is in fact the same thing, the dreamer’s mind. So dreams are invariably less than waking reality. > > Reality sometimes says no—it opposes our intentions. But it’s this opposition that ultimately allows us to acquire new knowledge, to grow and adapt. If this factor is rebuked in favor of some ever-acquiescing virtual world, we’ll lose that possibility. Indeed, inasmuch as thought is simply a reaction to external hindrances—you have to think about how to accomplish something, reflect on external factors you can’t change, and so on—meaningful thought might not even be possible in such a world. There’s nothing for it to act on. > [@kanicbird](#): > > But since dreams are based on our reality and experiences in ‘real life’, if their was no ‘real life’, where would dreams come from? You two have a similar argument, but I disagree. I think that in the sensory deprivation tank that is deep sleep, the conscious mind is stilled such that the subconscious can notice the workings of the machinery of the brain itself. Consciously done, this would fall under “psychonautics”. In a dream, well, I guess it is just dreaming. Point is, there actually is a source of material for dreams absent real-world experience. And there is a kind of logical subjective anatomical structure to it, one which I am pretty sure is unique in some ways for each individual, but in general has been mapped out and… let’s leave it at that for now. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/47 "2016-10-12T06:39:45Z")
Dreams are better dreams than reality is a dream. Reality is better reality than dreams are reality. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/48 "2016-10-14T13:52:09Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well put it this way: Let’s say I can make a device that triggers the pleasure centres of your brain directly. Every time you press a button you will feel greater happiness than any real – or dream – experience could ever produce. > > So, we should just sit there pressing this button for the rest of our lives (only pausing to do whatever it takes to keep our body alive)? That should be the goal for all individuals, and for humanity collectively? I mean…why not? Happiness at the press of a button. It’s guaranteed unlike what the rest of life could promise. The only reason people do what they do is to feel good, this just shortcuts that. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/49 "2016-10-14T13:53:10Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > You two have a similar argument, but I disagree. I think that in the sensory deprivation tank that is deep sleep, the conscious mind is stilled such that the subconscious can notice the workings of the machinery of the brain itself. Consciously done, this would fall under “psychonautics”. In a dream, well, I guess it is just dreaming. > > Point is, there actually is a source of material for dreams absent real-world experience. And there is a kind of logical subjective anatomical structure to it, one which I am pretty sure is unique in some ways for each individual, but in general has been mapped out and… let’s leave it at that for now. But this doesn’t really answer the question, also I doubt there is any source material for dreams absent the world. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/50 "2016-10-14T13:58:05Z")
Whatever area in which dreams are better than reality is dampered by the fact that the dreams aren’t real and you have to wake up from them. I’d rather have a reality in which my boss gives me a $10,000 raise, than a dream in which I win a $10 billion lottery jackpot. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/51 "2016-10-14T13:59:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Whatever area in which dreams are better than reality is dampered by the fact that the dreams aren’t real and you have to wake up from them. > I’d rather have a reality in which my boss gives me a $10,000 raise, than a dream in which I win a $10 billion lottery jackpot. But dream about feel real enough and their memories are just as real. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/52 "2016-10-14T14:00:25Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But dream about feel real enough and their memories are just as real. Sure they do, but a dream about winning the lottery isn’t going to pay my bills. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/53 "2016-10-14T14:25:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Sure they do, but a dream about winning the lottery isn’t going to pay my bills. But I’m saying here is what if you could stay there? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/54 "2016-10-14T14:32:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I mean…why not? Happiness at the press of a button. It’s guaranteed unlike what the rest of life could promise. The only reason people do what they do is to feel good, this just shortcuts that. Wireheading is a dead end. It delivers reward without achievement and humans participating in the practice will stagnate and achieve nothing - being what we are isn’t all about pleasure and reward, it’s about attainment of goals. Or in other words, it still is about pleasure and reward, but the pleasure and reward that comes from _knowing you have achieved a goal_. if what you want is the achievement, then it is not directly replaced by generic pleasure. Of course, you could put a wire in my head that would make me think differently about the above and would make me not care about goals and achievement - and I would be happy about that, by design. But I don’t want that. It’s adding pleasure by taking something else away - something that I value. Put another way: do you have any kind of problems? I could make them all go away, instantly, by shooting you in the head. Any reason why you don’t want that? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/55 "2016-10-14T14:39:24Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Wireheading is a dead end. It delivers reward without achievement and humans participating in the practice will stagnate and achieve nothing - being what we are isn’t all about pleasure and reward, it’s about attainment of goals. > > Or in other words, it still is about pleasure and reward, but the pleasure and reward that comes from _knowing you have achieved a goal_. if what you want is the achievement, then it is not directly replaced by generic pleasure. > > Of course, you could put a wire in my head that would make me think differently about the above and would make me not care about goals and achievement - and I would be happy about that, by design. > But I don’t want that. It’s adding pleasure by taking something else away - something that I value. > > Put another way: do you have any kind of problems? I could make them all go away, instantly, by shooting you in the head. Any reason why you don’t want that? That would be death, which would be something to avoid. But you fail to understand that people work for pleasure because that’s the way to get it. Even the sense of achievement is mostly just to gain pleasure from fulfilling the goal society sets. I would say the need to achieve things is debatable. I’m willing to bet that if there was such a box and you could feel good without the work, achievement wouldn’t matter. Because you would feel good, and all you have to do is press a button. No struggle, no mess. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/56 "2016-10-14T15:02:05Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > That would be death, which would be something to avoid. > > But you fail to understand that people work for pleasure because that’s the way to get it. Even the sense of achievement is mostly just to gain pleasure from fulfilling the goal society sets. I would say the need to achieve things is debatable. > > I’m willing to bet that if there was such a box and you could feel good without the work, achievement wouldn’t matter. Because you would feel good, and all you have to do is press a button. No struggle, no mess. Maybe this is a circular argument from my end, but I cannot have real satisfaction in life without knowing that I did something that mattered or made a difference. If I just sat in a corner and pressed the “happy sensation” button repeatedly, and died at the ripe old age of 90, having done nothing but press that happy-feeling button, I can’t imagine how I could possibly be pleased with the life I’d lived. But then again - and here is the circular part - maybe the button \*makes \*me pleased about having lived an empty life like that. ---
**Author:** ![greenmario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@greenmario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenmario)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/57 "2016-10-14T15:31:27Z")
Reminds me of a certain Twilight Zone episode where a dead man believes he’s in heaven when he gets everything ever wanted on demand, only to find out its quite the opposite ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/58 "2016-10-14T16:52:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Maybe this is a circular argument from my end, but I cannot have real satisfaction in life without knowing that I did something that mattered or made a difference. If I just sat in a corner and pressed the “happy sensation” button repeatedly, and died at the ripe old age of 90, having done nothing but press that happy-feeling button, I can’t imagine how I could possibly be pleased with the life I’d lived. > > But then again - and here is the circular part - maybe the button \*makes \*me pleased about having lived an empty life like that. That’s what I’m getting at. Humans do such struggles because that’s what gives pleasure. But if you could have a box that gives good feelings at the push of a button, why struggle. There would be no need for the “human” experience with such a device. Any protest to such an idea is based on the ideas we have grown up with in our current society. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/59 "2016-10-14T21:43:14Z")
It’s just a bit depressing, and the implications are as well. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169/60 "2016-10-14T22:01:10Z")
Hey, look at the dumb things we actually do in the name of pleasure. Skiing, golf, watching football on TV, collecting model railroad equipment, writing micro-essays on an internet discussion board… So long as we “pay our taxes” (work to earn enough money to support ourselves) what the hell? Who cares how odd people’s waking dreams may be? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-dreams-better-than-reality/768169.md?page=4)