# Are electric cars here to stay? I don't think so. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382 "2012-11-08T18:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/81 "2012-11-19T03:00:17Z")
I think that, along with a shift in focus to electric vehicles, comes a shift in infrastructure to deal with them, and a shift in our way of thinking of how to best utilise them. We will start to see: [ul] [li]solar power[/li][li]induction plates at every intersection, public carpark, freeway traffic jam hotspot, and parking spaces at work and at home[/li][li]fast chargers at every service station[/li][li]plug in sockets at every Shopping Centre carpark[/li][li]and, as technology constantly improves and lowers in cost, more efficient batteries with longer range[/li][/ul] But first we have to accept electric vehicles as the future, so that in-roads can be made. If you reject them outright based on how things are _now_, instead of the long-term or even short-term _future_ prospects, we will be stuck in the Internal Combustion era when it inevitably collapses, instead of transitioning into the only practical workable alternative yet put forward. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/82 "2012-11-19T03:20:08Z")
I will never figure out the loathing some people have for non-gasoline cars. Nobody is coming for your Suburban, folks. It’s okay for different kinds of cars to exist. One thing the skeptics have not acknowledged is that most households are two or more car households. Sure, you may not want a roadtrip with your Volt, but you probably also don’t want one with the Miata, either. Quite often, households have one car the basically is only ever used for short commutes, ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/83 "2012-11-19T03:40:52Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I will never figure out the loathing some people have for non-gasoline cars. Nobody is coming for your Suburban, folks. It’s okay for different kinds of cars to exist., honestly the only reason electric vehicles are so contentious is because of the Chevy Volt. there’s a group of people out there who act like the only reason the Volt exists is because Obama willed it so as a requirement of BK. Nevermind t.he fact that the Volt program kicked off in 2006 and was basically done before GM declared bankruptcy. The single problem I have with electric vehicles is the actions of fucking retarded legislators like the douchebags in (surprise, surprise) California. [We’ll mandate that you sell a certain number of zero-emissions vehicles,](http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/05/carb-california-to-boost-mandate-for-electric-cars.html) while _not_ mandating that anyone actually _buy_ said ZEVs. Typical Californian bullshit,. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/84 "2012-11-19T03:45:49Z")
Let me see. If I drove to work, it would be roughly 10 miles each way, so 100 miles a week. Low end Tesla Model S range… roughly 125-130 miles. So all week to and from work for me, plus my usual side trips (groceries, etc). Damn, I could charge the thing once a week and do all that? Where was the problem again? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/85 "2012-11-19T03:51:52Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Let me see. If I drove to work, it would be roughly 10 miles each way, so 100 miles a week. > > Low end Tesla Model S range… roughly 125-130 miles. > > So all week to and from work for me, plus my usual side trips (groceries, etc). > > Damn, I could charge the thing once a week and do all that? Where was the problem again? There is no problem. For you. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/86 "2012-11-19T11:19:06Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Damn, I could charge the thing once a week and do all that? Where was the problem again? The problem comes in when your mom goes to the hospital 65 miles away and you want to see her. Now, in addition to the stress of her illness, you have to rent a car, because the brand new car you bought for $50,000 is not up to the task of making a short day trip. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/87 "2012-11-19T11:24:25Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The problem comes in when your mom goes to the hospital 65 miles away and you want to see her. Unless there’s a charger at the Hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/88 "2012-11-19T15:04:38Z")
And again. EVs are not ideal for everyone. I do not think anyone is arguing that they are. My wife and I are seriously considering the Model X when it comes out. Give it a year to take care of teething troubles that all new models have, and it would be a great second car to replace mine. All three kids and my wife and me would be able to ride at one time, and since my commute is 20 miles, it would be well within its projected 160 mile range. Good car for me, maybe not for you. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/89 "2012-11-19T15:04:59Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Unless there’s a charger at the Hospital. Do they have a charger at the hospital? Who would you call to find out? Can they guarantee that the one token charger they installed will be free when you arrived? This is a basic problem with electric cars, which I don’t see going away in the forseeable future. “Refueling” the car becomes something you need to plan for, and allot time for. With a gasoline car, you can stop at any local gas station you happen to be wandering past, and leave \<5 minutes later with a full tank. Electric cars are simply less convenient. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/90 "2012-11-19T16:04:05Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The problem comes in when your mom goes to the hospital 65 miles away and you want to see her. Now, in addition to the stress of her illness, you have to rent a car, because the brand new car you bought for $50,000 is not up to the task of making a short day trip. What if you have to save three orphans from a fire, and you only have your two-seater sports car? What if you need to haul all of your worldly goods away before your house is destroyed in a hurricane, and you’ve only got a Camry? What if you are going on some Bond style car chase through narrow tunnels, and you only have your hulking Ram? What if you’ve only got enough cash to buy three gallons of gas, and your Range Rover won’t get far on that? _Every_ car has trade offs. Given that the average US household owns 2.38 vehicles, and a whopping 35% of American households have three or more cars, most people manage to get around these restrictions by taking the other car to the hospital. Having one car that is primarily useful for commutes and in-town travel is no big deal to the vast majority of American households. And if you only have one car? I live in the city, and _tons_ of people use ZipCars on a regular basis. It may take some creativity, but there are solutions out there. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/91 "2012-11-19T16:40:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well the obvious answer is dead batteries when the power goes out. They certainly aren’t going to have spare batteries and it would take a hefty generator to charge the car and keep the house going. Also would note that in a Hurricane Sandy situation, there’s no gas to power that generator. It’s like a vicious circle… 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/92 "2012-11-19T16:54:13Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Given that the average US household owns 2.38 vehicles, and a whopping 35% of American households have three or more cars, most people manage to get around these restrictions by taking the other car to the hospital. Having one car that is primarily useful for commutes and in-town travel is no big deal to the vast majority of American households. Sorry, I agree with almost your entire post, but I don’t think 35% constitutes the vast majority of anything. But, to counter my counter, even if _only_ 35% of American households get an electric car, that’s more than enough vehicles to incent the creation of electric refueling infrastructure and technology that would make the refueling issue a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/93 "2012-11-19T17:01:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > maybe you might want to read your cites first. It was a breakdown by race and it was done in a narrow location (Atlanta region). > > If you bothered to read my cite you would see that people trend toward closer locations to work when it’s doable but statistically it’s the higher income that is willing to travel farther. And how do they trend outside the US? IME to minimizing commute, but I’ll admit I haven’t bothered look for citeable papers. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/94 "2012-11-19T17:07:30Z")
It’s not a completely new idea or anything, but here is a recent [NatGeo article](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2012/11/121116-second-life-for-used-electric-car-batteries/) about using old electric car batteries by connecting them to the power grid. If we’re serious about energy security, a decentralized grid that can accept a variety of energy sources is where it’s at. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/95 "2012-11-19T17:09:00Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > _Every_ car has trade offs. A $50,000 family sedan that can’t manage a trip to a spot 1 hour away is not a “every car has trade offs” type of problem. It’s a “this car’s power plant isn’t ready for prime time” type of problem. Sure, people have multiple cars, and people with significant disposable income can spend 50Gs on a toy car. They can do this because they have a real car to use when the toy has to be put back in its box. Not to mention, this particular trade off doesn’t save the buyer any money, doesn’t provide any quantifiable benefit. It’s replacing an engine that works with particular limitations on utility, with a more expensive power plant that performs worse in basically every measurement you can think of. The only thing you save is fuel cost, but with the inherent mileage limitation, it’s impossible to make back the higher purchase cost. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/96 "2012-11-19T17:28:05Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Sorry, I agree with almost your entire post, but I don’t think 35% constitutes the vast majority of anything. > > But, to counter my counter, even if _only_ 35% of American households get an electric car, that’s more than enough vehicles to incent the creation of electric refueling infrastructure and technology that would make the refueling issue a moot point. The vast majority of families have more than one car. 35% have enough cars that they can have a commute car, a utility vehicle and the god damned Oscar Myer wiener car if they like. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/97 "2012-11-19T18:44:53Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The vast majority of families have more than one car. 35% have enough cars that they can have a commute car, a utility vehicle and the god damned Oscar Myer wiener car if they like. I’m not sure we agree on what ‘vast majority’ means. The average American family has just over 2 cars. That tells me that a number probably close to 50% of American families have one car or less. Again, that seems to fall significantly short of a ‘vast majority’. That said, whatever. It’s just a language thing. As I said, I think we both agree on your primary point. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/98 "2012-11-19T20:54:06Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > I’m not sure we agree on what ‘vast majority’ means. The average American family has just over 2 cars. That tells me that a number probably close to 50% of American families have one car or less. Again, that seems to fall significantly short of a ‘vast majority’. If the average is 2.38 and 50% have only one car, that requires the other 50% to have an average of 3.76 cars. Seem unlikely? Then so are the odds that 50% of households have only one car (or less). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/99 "2012-11-19T21:12:24Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Also would note that in a Hurricane Sandy situation, there’s no gas to power that generator. It’s like a vicious circle… 🆒 And as already noted earlier in this thread, those with electric vehicles had _less_ of a problem post-Sandy than those with gas-only vehicles. The same was true post-Fukishima. The best option of course is a PHEV that goes far on gas if that is what is available but which is also capable of functioning as an EV for modest range if that is what is. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382/100 "2012-11-19T21:17:14Z")
> [@phreesh](#): > > Sorry, I agree with almost your entire post, but I don’t think 35% constitutes the vast majority of anything. > > But, to counter my counter, even if _only_ 35% of American households get an electric car, that’s more than enough vehicles to incent the creation of electric refueling infrastructure and technology that would make the refueling issue a moot point. Also again - the right choice will be different for different households. There is no question however that a pure battery electric (as opposed to a PHEV or EREV) gives up some utility - the ability to travel cross country with that vehicle if nothing else. How much that utility is worth will depend on the individual circumstance. The issue is if the gain is worth it, which also will vary. I do suspect that for many (and for now I am among these numbers) the PHEV approach will be the best option. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-electric-cars-here-to-stay-i-dont-think-so/640382.md?page=6)