# Are environmentalists cowards on immigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086 "2011-06-11T06:04:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/561 "2011-07-04T20:31:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What are you still doing in this brainfart of a thread of yours anyway, **Chen?** 12 pages already – how many times you need your ass kicked? HA! If anyone’s ass has been kicked, it certainly has not been his. He’s handled himself quite well. Given the amount of time you waste on these boards—and I don’t just mean your own—you might have realized by now that there is going to be little to movement in threads like this. Especially when one side, which is not Chen’s, is arguing from emotion, constantly employing fallacies (with ad hominem and fallacy of association at the top of the list), and won’t grant that most basic of simple facts for fear that their ideology might be threatened. Thanks for the Holiday chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/562 "2011-07-04T20:41:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > HA! If anyone’s ass has been kicked, it certainly has not been his. He’s handled himself quite well. Given the amount of time you waste on these boards—and I don’t just mean your own—you might have realized by now that there is going to be little to movement in threads like this. Especially when one side, which is not Chen’s, is arguing from emotion, constantly employing fallacies (with ad hominem and fallacy of association at the top of the list), and won’t grant that most basic of simple facts for fear that their ideology might be threatened. > > Thanks for the Holiday chuckle. Sure, BTW you can find anything that the nativists groups are doing to pressure politicians now regarding the climate stability part of the equation that guys like Lester Brown insist is needed now? Otherwise it is clear that in the end you are granting that the environmentalist angle from those groups was as fake as a 3 dollar bill. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/563 "2011-07-05T00:58:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sure, BTW you can find anything that the nativists groups are doing to pressure politicians now regarding the climate stability part of the equation that guys like Lester Brown insist is needed now? > > Otherwise it is clear that in the end you are granting that the environmentalist angle from those groups was as fake as a 3 dollar bill. And you now accept the basic logic of why immigration numbers are a key factor in US population growth. Or as **Magellan01** points out, you can’t grant the most basic points because they threaten your ideology. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/564 "2011-07-05T01:22:54Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > And you now accept the basic logic of why immigration numbers are a key factor in US population growth. Or as **Magellan01** points out, you can’t grant the most basic points because they threaten your ideology. As has been shown, immigration is less of an issue for environmentalists, so they are neutral on that, as mentioned before population is not ignored from the equation by Brown, but the focus is fighting poverty and control of the whole population. What it is clear still, your fake environmentalist organizations still show that they are just pretending to care about the environment, you have failed still to produce any examples of the needed pressure that is needed now to make a change on carbon emissions. And what I have seen that the most likely reason is because the leaders and the ones funding them also are AGW deniers. And they really do not care about future immigration, as they don’t do anything about the stabilization of the climate. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/565 "2011-07-05T06:04:30Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As has been shown, immigration is less of an issue for environmentalists, so they are neutral on that, as mentioned before population is not ignored from the equation by Brown, but the focus is fighting poverty and control of the whole population. The basic gist of the argument is set out nicely by **Magellan01** here. Perhaps you could address it? > [@](#): > > Please keep in mind that all the numbered items refer to what transpires within U.S. borders. In fact, I will slightly alter what he wrote and take his name off (as to not pout words in his mouth). Try being direct and not shooting off on tangents. Here you go: > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Chen019 > > \*\*1. Population growth is seen as a stressful thing for the U.S. environment (US 400 million+), as it would be for any environment. > > 1. Immigration is projected to be a major driver of US population growth. > > 2. Therefore reducing immigration is one effective way to reduce US population growth, and the added stress it would bring. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/566 "2011-07-05T06:04:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > HA! If anyone’s ass has been kicked, it certainly has not been his. He’s handled himself quite well. Given the amount of time you waste on these boards—and I don’t just mean your own—you might have realized by now that there is going to be little to movement in threads like this. Especially when one side, which is not Chen’s, is arguing from emotion, constantly employing fallacies (with ad hominem and fallacy of association at the top of the list), and won’t grant that most basic of simple facts for fear that their ideology might be threatened. > > Thanks for the Holiday chuckle. The premise of the thread is that (American) environmentalists are “cowards on immigration,” and it was a preposterous proposition to begin with, and now, on the twelfth page, neither you nor **Chen** is a keystroke nearer to making it anything else. All you both have done is expose your pet crackpot utterly-irrelevant-to-environmentalism racial agendas. I call **that** an ass-kicking. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/567 "2011-07-05T06:14:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The premise of the thread is that (American) environmentalists are “cowards on immigration,” and it was a preposterous proposition to begin with, and now, on the twelfth page, neither you nor **Chen** is a keystroke nearer to making it anything else… call **that** an ass-kicking. Hehe, keep telling yourself that buddy 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/568 "2011-07-05T06:29:24Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > The basic gist of the argument is set out nicely by **Magellan01** here. Perhaps you could address it? Already done, so you are just playing. The question was if it made sense for environmentalists to remain neutral on immigration, and it was the sensible and logical thing to do. Your “logic” in reality avoids this middle position. Indeed, it just deny it. It is not effective as in reality you have not established what exactly and how you want to deal with, when references where wrought by you that referred to the past immigrants and their descendants, the clear implication was to find a way to deal with them also, and it made the numbers seen more dramatic, as even you noticed early that would not fly over here, so enter the point that we are only dealing with future immigrants but this means that immigration is even \*\*less \*\*important to environmentalists when looking at the whole deal. That is, if we take care of the issue, for as it is clear, you are also denying that the work the groups you are so fond of do not do anything about the most important part of the equation and will make the situation worse in the future. Incidentally you are now fighting against Lester Brown and the sites he recommended, are you still glad you pointed at him? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/569 "2011-07-05T08:28:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Already done, so you are just playing. No you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086/570 "2011-07-08T23:03:55Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > No you haven’t. **magellan’s** post #561? Not an argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-environmentalists-cowards-on-immigration/585086.md?page=28)