# Are expensive restaurants really much better than cheaper ones
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 9, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220 "2012-03-09T02:10:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/61 "2012-03-10T00:54:45Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> There was a freakonomics radio podcast a few days ago where one of the hosts talks about doing that when he was a new professor. They had fancy dinners with all the academics, so he got some expensive wine and some cheap wine then served it to people. they couldn’t tell the difference, but they got mad when he told them about the experiment. Of course that is just wine, not actual dining.
We tried that at one of our parties as a side by side comparison. People who knew wine picked the expensive wine pretty consistently. People who normally drank wine that had kangaroos on the bottle couldn’t.
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### Author:  [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/62 "2012-03-10T19:37:10Z")
I usually spend $30-$40 for a dinner at random places that suite my fancy at the time. (including drinks)
A $100 dinner wasn’t any more fancy or tasty.
Of course there are exclusions as in Kobe beef and them 'spensive mushrooms.
Personally a Lobster tail and a slab of meat is still a Lobster tail and a slab of meat, whatever you pay for it.
It isn’t likely they would cook it better or worse on purpose. 😉
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### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/63 "2012-03-10T19:54:16Z")
> [@Jamicat](#):
>
> Personally a Lobster tail and a slab of meat is still a Lobster tail and a slab of meat, whatever you pay for it.
But a low-quality steak versus a really nice dry-aged steak is a very different thing, as is a high-quality lobster tail versus a frozen, dried-out lobster tail.
> [@](#):
>
> It isn’t likely they would cook it better or worse on purpose. 😉
Maybe not on purpose, but there’s a thousand different ways to ruin a perfectly good piece of food by cooking it badly.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/64 "2012-03-10T20:21:08Z")
> [@billfish678](#):
>
> Brickbacon. There was an episode of Penn and Tellers Bullshit where they did that sort thing. They served four? couples absolute crap outa a can but dressed it up with all sorts of pomp and circumstance. Only one guy in one of the couples realized it was absolute crap.
I didn’t see the whole episode but as I recall they used four average people for this experiment. Which means they didn’t prove that there isn’t a detectable difference between canned food and quality restaurant food, just that not everyone can detect the difference.
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### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/65 "2012-03-10T20:44:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I didn’t see the whole episode but as I recall they used four average people for this experiment. Which means they didn’t prove that there isn’t a detectable difference between canned food and quality restaurant food, just that not everyone can detect the difference.
I watched the clip. I don’t think anyone who even occasionally goes to higher-end restaurants would have been fooled. The descriptions from the waiter alone are so over-the-top full of bullshit that I don’t think it would have fooled anyone except people who’d never been to a higher-end restaurant.
Like everything else, the more you explore food, the better you get at recognizing the really good stuff (which could be excellent BBQ at a neighborhood joint or a perfect bite of foie gras at a top restaurant). Of course people who don’t have a lot of experience or interest in it are going to be a bit lost at first, much like I’m lost when I go to the symphony or a live sports event. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a difference between excellent food and just OK or downright bad food.
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/66 "2012-03-10T22:25:08Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#):
>
> Or…my husband, who has eaten at The French Laundry, points out that the second best burger he has had in his life was at Matt’s, a 3.2 bar in South Minneapolis known for the juicy Lucy. The bar itself smells like a urinal. It isn’t fine dining, but it’s a darn good burger.
This.
Speaking as the husband in question, I want to reinforce this. I have eaten at a number of nice restaurants - one of the benefits of the kind of work I do is that people buy me dinner when I am at conferences, which does not suck - and while the food is much better on average than the food at not-expensive restaurants, it’s not universally true.
The best burger I’ve ever had is at Ciao Bella here in the Twin Cities, which is middling-expensive. [http://ciaobellamn.com/](http://ciaobellamn.com/)
The second best is at Matt’s. [http://mattsbar.com/](http://mattsbar.com/)
Their web pages will give you a very good idea of the relative ambiance of the restaurants.
For another example, the best fries I have ever had are at the Strip Club, but the second best is McDonald’s.
It’s not just about cost, although as people have pointed out, higher-quality ingredients, better equipment, more experienced chefs & staff and little things like comfortable chairs all contribute to a better experience.
In general, expensive restaurants are much better than cheap ones. But you pay for the difference, and whether the difference is worth the cost is an individual decision.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/67 "2012-03-10T22:27:25Z")
Nobody is going to say “You know, this bruschetta is pretty grotty” on a date to a pricey dinner. Especially in this case, where the date is in on the trick and making positive comments. If your lover is sitting there praising a dish, you aren’t going to say “Actually, this tastes ghastly.” You are going to shut up and let them have a good time, keeping your negative opinons to yourself. And if you suspect your date is more sophisticated than you, you have a strong incentive not to contradict them and to play along accordingly.
It was a cute little clip, but I promise you that a group of folks on a Chowhound outing- i.e. a neutral setting where it’s appropriate to criticize food and people don’t have other motivations to fake things- would proceed to tear that restaurant a new one.
In my own schema of food, I picture a wide swathe of food that is very, very tasty, but on the clunky side. My own cooking falls into this category. I am a very very good home chef, but I know what I do- I rely on a few tried and true flavor profiles. You are basically never going to go wrong, for example, serving anything with greeks seasonings, lemon juice, good olive oil and feta cheese. I’ve got a couple dozen of these little combos I work with and it’s all extremely delicious- but if I were a better cook I’d have a more subtle range of more nuanced flavors rather than just a bunch of interchangeable broad flavor profiles. Likewise I know a few “tricks” for cooking- grate carrots into tomato sauce for sweetness, cook your Indian spices in oil to release fat-soluble flavors, pour some vodka in a tomato sauce to enhance the tomato flavor, put a dash of good orange juice and a beer in your black beans, etc.
But real cooks don’t just know a few tricks. They have a deep, complete understanding of their ingredients and the scientific processes behind what makes food good. They understand on a molecular level how to manipulate caramelization just right. They can master exactly how much moisture their dishes retain. They know how proteins and binders and different types of heat affect flavors and how to use all of these forces to bring out the best in their ingredients. These guys are masters of the elements. Hell, did you know that the properties of eggs change with chicken’s seasonal feeds, so that there are recipes that work better in the spring and recipes that work better in the winter? These guys know this stuff.
I think a lot of good hole in the wall restaurants and most good home cooks fall under the “good but clunky” category. They serve solid, delicious, occasionally mind-blowingly good food. But it’s got this sort of clunkiness to it. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing- many of the world’s great cuisines are essentially clunky home cooking- but restaurants that take it up to the next level are noticeably different, in a way that is worth the price to experience if you are in to that sort of thing.
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### Author:  [@pprovazky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pprovazky)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/68 "2012-03-10T23:23:51Z")
I basically like to eat a cheap food, but on the other hand, sometimes it is good to go out and feel like you can afford to buy an expensive food. There is one positive on this! An expensive food is – in most of the cases – very small in quantity. Therefore, you cannot be overeaten in comparison to cheaper ones. And this is the point according to my opinion
* * *
[lana provazy](http://www.provaznictvi.cz)
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### Author:  [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/69 "2012-03-10T23:35:44Z")
I’ve only been to a couple expensive restaurants, personally. Didn’t find them worth it. I don’t find restaurants worthwhile on the whole.
I did enjoy a [book](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Man-Who-Ate-World-Perfect/dp/0755316347) on the subject of expensive restaurants-- _The Man Who Ate the World_, by Jay Rayner, a British food critic. He hits Moscow, New York, Tokyo, and Vegas, and eats a variety of chow that’s really, really, bad for you. One thing he touched on was how incredibly bad all this is for the environment, like how all those restaurants in Vegas have the food flown in. Maine lobster wasn’t good enough for one chef, it had to come from Brittany. I liked that Rayner was at least a little conflicted about his gluttony.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/70 "2012-03-11T07:00:19Z")
I’ll just say that I don’t find a strong correlation between price and quality. My wife and I spent $75 on sushi for dinner tonight, it would usually be around $100 but we ate light. It was as good as places that would have cost twice as much. There was a little less variety available than some higher end places, but the sushi chef knows me. He provides extras and tells me about his best fish. You can’t but that for more money. Over the years I’ve had some ridiculously expensive meals, but at any price level it’s always been hit or miss on getting value for the money.
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### Author:  [@Klostertal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klostertal)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/71 "2012-03-12T20:48:10Z")
Has anyone eaten at foodie orgasm places like El Bulli or the French Laundry? Was it worth it? It sounds amazing when someone like Tony Bourdain describes eating at places like those, but of course he’s famous and (presumably) doesn’t get treated like an average schlub.
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### Author:  [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/72 "2012-03-12T21:54:43Z")
When you eat at that level, I’d expect there ARE no schlubs. Your customer might own the local football franchise, be the local shipping magnate, or own a Fortune 100 company.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/73 "2012-03-12T22:05:38Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#):
>
> When you eat at that level, I’d expect there ARE no schlubs. Your customer might own the local football franchise, be the local shipping magnate, or own a Fortune 100 company.
As I stated above, my brother and his wife have been to Alinea three times (which is the level of El Bulli and French Laundry), and they’re average professionals (she’s a nurse, he’s a graphic designer.) Regular folk go to these places, too, you know. You’d be surprised.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/74 "2012-03-12T22:21:55Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#):
>
> I’ve only been to a couple expensive restaurants, personally. Didn’t find them worth it. I don’t find restaurants worthwhile on the whole.
>
> I did enjoy a [book](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Man-Who-Ate-World-Perfect/dp/0755316347) on the subject of expensive restaurants-- _The Man Who Ate the World_, by Jay Rayner, a British food critic. He hits Moscow, New York, Tokyo, and Vegas, and eats a variety of chow that’s really, really, bad for you. One thing he touched on was how incredibly bad all this is for the environment, like how all those restaurants in Vegas have the food flown in. Maine lobster wasn’t good enough for one chef, it had to come from Brittany. I liked that Rayner was at least a little conflicted about his gluttony.
Interesting comment regarding the lobsters. IMHO, Maine /Eastern Lobsters are the best. The Australian (rock) lobsters are pretty tasteless, as are the Carribean (spiney) lobsters. Outside the USA, the only good lobsters I have found are the South Atlantic slipper lobsters (actually not a true lobster), but quite delicios.
The high end restaurants that I take issue with are the ons that have to make bizarre combinations of food-or gimmicky stuff (like chips of dry ice in the drinks).
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### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/75 "2012-03-12T22:48:47Z")
> [@Klostertal](#):
>
> Has anyone eaten at foodie orgasm places like El Bulli or the French Laundry? Was it worth it? It sounds amazing when someone like Tony Bourdain describes eating at places like those, but of course he’s famous and (presumably) doesn’t get treated like an average schlub.
I’ve been to Alinea, which (similar to what **pulykamell** points out) is actually higher on the “Best Restaurants in the World” list than French Laundry right now. El Bulli, of course, is in a class by itself.
It is amazing, and yes, it was worth it. It’s really, really hard to pull off things like [perfectly cooked pheasant breast served impaled on a smoldering autumn oak leaf](http://twitpic.com/3auhh2) without it seeming gimmicky or over-the-top, but they do it.
I’ve got reservations at the Aviary - the same chef’s cocktail bar - for a 10 course cocktail-and-small-bites menu later this week. I’d’ve rather gotten into Next (Achatz’s latest restaurant) but tickets (yes, tickets, not reservations) are nigh on impossible to get, so cocktails it is.
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### Author:  [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/76 "2012-03-12T23:13:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> As I stated above, my brother and his wife have been to Alinea three times (which is the level of El Bulli and French Laundry), and they’re average professionals (she’s a nurse, he’s a graphic designer.) Regular folk go to these places, too, you know. You’d be surprised.
No doubt…but how can the proprietor TELL if you’re a regular folk or not?
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/77 "2012-03-12T23:59:20Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#):
>
> No doubt…but how can the proprietor TELL if you’re a regular folk or not?
Ah, I totally missed your point. :smack:
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/78 "2012-03-13T00:20:30Z")
> [@Klostertal](#):
>
> Has anyone eaten at foodie orgasm places like El Bulli or the French Laundry? Was it worth it? It sounds amazing when someone like Tony Bourdain describes eating at places like those, but of course he’s famous and (presumably) doesn’t get treated like an average schlub.
There is no such thing as an ‘average schlub’ at the good ones. IMO the mark of a truly classy place is that it’s classless.
As mentioned above, I’ve eaten at The Fat Duck, as well as variously Ramsay at Claridges, Le Manoir aux Quat’ Saisons, Phoenix Alley and Patrick Gibauld, as well as at other ‘minor’ Michelin-starred places and non-starred places of note like Le Caprice.
There is only one from that list which treated me with snobbishness, which was Peacock Alley - which no longer exists. It was my first fine dining experience, and they definitely looked down their noses when I ordered beer instead of wine, and I got no warmth or enthusiasm from the staff. Luckily the food was so stunningly tasty that I wasn’t put off by it.
I used to vaguely know a chef who worked there, and he said that Peacock Alley, which shut down years ago, was run by a megalomaniac asshole sociopath, something which was confirmed by his post-restaurant actions, so I guess their superior attitude was indicative of a more general systemic problem. I mean, they had black guys in uniform whose only job was to deliver bread. No other black faces to be seen. There was something really ‘off’ about it.
All the others mentioned have been charming and it was irrelevant that I wasn’t particularly well dressed or wanted a beer or was clearly so excited that I wasn’t a ‘regular’ to this world.
Of the rest of that list, the staff at Ramsay were too rushed off their feet - I’ve never seen so many people packed into a restaurant - really to engage (and the food wasn’t as amazing as I’d hoped). But of all the others, the waitstaff have been genuinely charming, really enthused about the food, and ready to have fun with their clients. Not a hint of the cold shoulder nor any snobbishness.
BTW I have also read _The Man Who Ate the World_ and highly recommend it as an insight into the world of haute cuisine. Some of it good, some bad, but very enlightening.
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### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/79 "2012-03-13T00:25:41Z")
Meal price isn’t as important as franchising, there are many restaurants near me I’d rather eat at and would cost less than Red Lobster, Olive Garden or Applebee’s.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2012, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-expensive-restaurants-really-much-better-than-cheaper-ones/615220/80 "2012-03-13T10:38:23Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#):
>
> To this day, I can still remember the Scallop that was entirely different from any I’d ever had before. It was this way because about 8 hours previous, it was still in the Atlantic Ocean. The texture was fantastic.
Ah. See, I think I have a disadvantage of sorts appreciating that kind of stuff in that I live in a place where if you want to eat prime seafood until it comes out of your ears, you vacation in Galicia during a month with an R in its name. From the ship to the pot to the table.
If you want the same thing with veggies, you come to my home town. Often people hear the name and say “doesn’t ring a bell… wait, does it have anything to do with the lettuce hearts of that name?” “yup” and the asparagus?" “yup” “and the tomatoes?” “yup. And the artichokes, peaches, green beans, white beans, potatoes and so forth.” Kind of spoils you for eating veggies from Elsewhere, at least once you’ve learned to cook them properly.
Like so many other things, more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean better, but the best will be found near the top.
There’s two restaurants near my current job which belong to the same guy: most of our coworkers go to White, my team goes to Red. The maitre at Red remarked “you know, a lot of your people go to White” “oh yeah, we know, we tried it but the service is better here.” She gave us a grin that would have blinded a train.
(White is ‘posher’ in that there’s no music, no TVs, the food is more expensive and the servers are pretty chicks. Red has TVs set to a music channel, slightly less expensive food and the servers are two guys who won’t be turning 50. The food is very good and very prettily presented in both - but the two guys do kick the pretty chicks flat when it comes to remembering what we all asked for or bringing an additional service)
And El Bulli is closed, people…
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