# Are “fake homeless” really a thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897 "2022-04-15T22:06:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/1 "2022-04-15T22:06:41Z")
I’ve heard stories about people asking for handouts who are just doing it for money, not out of need, and who are actually making decent money by doing so. Allegedly they don’t have anything preventing them from getting a job. Is this a real thing, or is it akin to the “welfare queen” idea? I wasn’t sure of another phrase to use instead of “fake homeless” and I’m sorry if it comes across as insensitive. “Homeless impersonators?” And if it belongs elsewhere obviously move it there. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/2 "2022-04-15T22:24:15Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I’ve heard stories about people asking for handouts who are just doing it for money, not out of need, and who are actually making decent money by doing so. Allegedly they don’t have anything preventing them from getting a job. Is this a real thing, or is it akin to the “welfare queen” idea? I don’t know if there’s a factual answer to your question. You equate panhandling with homelessness, and, in truth, so did I at one point, but I’m not sure most of the people I see panhandling these days are homeless. Some of them certainly are, but I’m pretty sure many of the people who have hit me up over the last few years weren’t homeless. And then how do we define need? I remember some young folks in their early twenties who asked me for some money. They both seem like healthy able bodied young adults capable of work but for whatever reason they were asking me for cash. Did they need the money? I bet. Were they incapable of working? Maybe, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/3 "2022-04-15T22:25:44Z")
You’re quite right. I’m not sure I’m asking the right question. Let me think about it. I’ve seen it as a punchline in movies and such-the beggar who’s secretly rich and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/4 "2022-04-15T22:27:11Z")
While some of them have homes, I doubt any of them are driving around in Bentleys enjoying the good life. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/5 "2022-04-15T22:29:28Z")
I suppose if they held up a sign that says “Homeless” and they aren’t then they’re “fake homeless”. Does that actually happen? Considering homeless people are often living indoors, they just have no permanent or reliable address, you would have to be talking about someone owning a home or maintaining a lease who was panhandling and making the claim that they were homeless. I know there are people who have no qualms about begging for money when they are not homeless at all or even poverty stricken, just needing or wanting some cash, so I’m sure it has happened. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/6 "2022-04-15T22:33:05Z")
Stephen King wrote a short story about a man that pretended to be homeless in order to panhandle. It’s called “Blind Willie” and it’s included in the book **Hearts in Atlantis**. There are a lot of panhandlers that are not homeless, and don’t claim to be. I’ve met several such people. Now, the majority of the people walking by them might assume that panhandler=homeless, but if you ask them they’ll tell you they’re not. The panhandlers I know live in reduced circumstances, and legitimately need the the money. But they aren’t homeless, they live in some sort of veteran or public housing. The guys I know are mentally handicapped to some degree and this may be what keeps them from working. But the idea that they are just normal lazy people looking to make a fast buck is ridiculous. First, it’s work, and not particularly cushy work. You’ve gotta show up at the right time and stand on that corner for hours, often in inclement weather, breathing car exhaust and enduring verbal abuse and sometimes the threat of physical assault. It doesn’t require much intelligence or skill, but it’s work. And the money they take in is crappy, despite the premise of the King story no one’s making a professional salary by bumming spare change on a street corner. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/7 "2022-04-15T22:33:35Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I’ve seen it as a punchline in movies and such-the beggar who’s secretly rich and so on. If someone with a comfortable amount of money is willing to stand outside begging strangers for a dollar, more power to them. I doubt many people would do it if they didn’t need the money. Maybe some do. I’m personally not offended by the possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/8 "2022-04-15T22:42:36Z")
I just want to thank everyone for their responses so far. I’m learning a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/9 "2022-04-15T22:43:35Z")
See also: > **[The Man with the Twisted Lip](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_with_the_Twisted_Lip)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > "The Man with the Twisted Lip", one of the 56 short Sherlock Holmes stories written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, is the sixth of the twelve stories in The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. The story was first published in the Strand Magazine in December 1891. Doyle ranked "The Man with the Twisted Lip" sixteenth in a list of his nineteen favourite Sherlock Holmes stories. > The story begins when a friend of Dr. Watson's wife comes to Watson's house, ... ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/10 "2022-04-15T22:57:13Z")
Here in the UK, there is a splendid scheme where people who need money can buy a magazine for £1.50 and sell it for £3, keeping £1.50 for themselves. [The Big Issue](https://www.bigissue.com/) ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/11 "2022-04-15T23:07:08Z")
George Orwell wrote a brief piece [Why Are Beggars Despised?](https://www.btboces.org/Downloads/8_Why%20Are%20Beggars%20Despised%20by%20George%20Orwell.pdf) in which he concludes: > Then the question arises, Why are beggars despised?–for they are despised, universally. I believe it is for the simple reason that they fail to earn a decent living. In practice nobody cares whether work is useful or useless, productive or parasitic; the sole thing demanded is that it shall be profitable. In all the modern talk about energy, efficiency, social service and the rest of it, what meaning is there except “Get money, get it legally, and get a lot of it”? Money has become the grand test of virtue. By this test beggars fail, and for this they are despised. If one could earn even ten pounds a week at begging, it would become a respectable profession immediately. A beggar, looked at realistically, is simply a businessman, getting his living, like other businessmen, in the way that comes to hand. He has not, more than most modern people, sold his honor; he has merely made the mistake of choosing a trade at which it is impossible to grow rich. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/12 "2022-04-15T23:16:15Z")
Hardly rich, but a FOAF lived in a trailer and had a beater, and made her $ off benefits and begging. So, not homeless, did technically own a home (older singlewide her aunt left her), but of course paid space rent. She used her begging $ to buy booze and pot. Nothing really wrong with that. Depression, etc, not really suited for the 9-5. Her thing was a scruffy dog in a shopping cart. There is a guy locally who drives a old Benz, and says he is a Doctor that lost his wallet and needs gas $$ . Scammer or beggar? ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/13 "2022-04-15T23:29:24Z")
In Ashland, Oregon, near where I used to live, there was a couple who panhandled and apparently brought in enough money to put their kids through private school and rent out a penthouse hotel room (such as they are in the town of Ashland, there was really only one tall-ish building). When a newspaper article about the couple was published there was outcry, and apparently other panhandlers reported a drop in profits as a result of their notoriety. They were evicted from their hotel and had to stay elsewhere. I don’t recall anymore what ultimately became of them. I can’t find the original article from the Medford Mail Tribune but below is an AP article from the Seattle Times which references it. > **[“Affluent beggars” draw scrutiny for their lifestyle](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/affluent-beggars-draw-scrutiny-for-their-lifestyle/)** > > A couple with three children who make a living as panhandlers say they are surprised by public attention to their lifestyle. Jason Pancoast and Elizabeth... I doubt the situation described above is very common at all. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/14 "2022-04-16T00:11:16Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Here in the UK, there is a splendid scheme where people who need money can buy a magazine for £1.50 and sell it for £3, keeping £1.50 for themselves. I’m pretty sure you just described how business works. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/15 "2022-04-16T00:53:31Z")
There’s a similar newspaper in Boston called Spare Change: [Spare Change News - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_Change_News) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/16 "2022-04-16T01:12:36Z")
I do know that the fake violin players that hit our stores periodically are not homeless although they claim to be. And they live under pretty decent circumstances. It shouldn’t be a surprise that scam artist play on people’s sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/17 "2022-04-16T01:17:45Z")
I remember seeing a news story in the 00s in my area that followed a woman who would stand with her baby next to the freeway off-ramp where there was always backed up traffic. Social services got involved for endangering a child but when they did the numbers she was clearing $60,000 a year in cash according to the news report for panhandling during the main rush hours (morning, lunch, and evening) 5 days a week, working about six hours a day. Because she had the kid people would often give her $10s and $20s and she made on average $40 to $50 an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/18 "2022-04-16T01:23:07Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Because she had the kid people would often give her $10s and $20s and she made on average $40 to $50 an hour I wouldn’t do that for $50 per hour. If she wants to, hey, it’s a free country. I don’t approve of making the baby part of the show, but it’s still probably better than sitting in front of a TV all day ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/19 "2022-04-16T01:23:53Z")
I don’t suppose there is the slightest chance you could provide a link to this story? That is an awful lot of detail for something remembered from sometime in the 00’s. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897/20 "2022-04-16T01:31:20Z")
I’m sure that you guys are tired of my quoting Maimonides, whose name I cannot spell, “If you give money to ten beggars, and nine of them were lying, you have done a good thing”. The last guy had a bottle in a paper bag. I had nothing in my wallet but twenties, so went to the car and dug three dollars of quarters out of my hamburger change stash and gave them to him. I need the karma. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fake-homeless-really-a-thing/962897.md?page=2)