# Are Fat People on Airplanes Becoming a Big Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 27, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130 "2013-03-27T20:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/61 "2013-03-28T17:23:08Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > People are getting larger, airline seats aren’t, and the airlines don’t make it easy to purchase two adjacent seats even if you want to (for the most part, you have to cal the airline to do this - **can’t use websites like Orbitz or Expedia to book your flight if you need two seats** ). So I’m not at all surprised it’s a growing problem (pun not intended). The part that I bolded is just not true. I booked flights to Hawaii\* for me and my two children on Orbitz last December/January and was able to pick our exact seats on all legs of the trip. - Yes, we had a wonderful time, thanks for asking. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/62 "2013-03-28T17:23:24Z")
It’s nice to be 5’8" and 150 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/63 "2013-03-28T17:34:36Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > The part that I bolded is just not true. I booked flights to Hawaii\* for me and my two children on Orbitz last December/January and was able to pick our exact seats on all legs of the trip. > > - Yes, we had a wonderful time, thanks for asking. That was my first thought when I read the quoted part and almost asked why you couldn’t buy it on Orbitz. But you purchased a ticket for three people and (I’m sure) used three different names as the passenger names. I’m assuming the system would give an error if you selected the same name for two seats due to airline security requirements. I’m guessing but I’m sure someone will come along to confirm. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/64 "2013-03-28T18:46:49Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > The part that I bolded is just not true. I booked flights to Hawaii\* for me and my two children on Orbitz last December/January and was able to pick our exact seats on all legs of the trip. > > - Yes, we had a wonderful time, thanks for asking. No, you bought three seats for three separate people. Those websites don’t offer a way to book two seats for one person - and the seat assignments you got at the time you booked your flight were NOT guaranteed. If necessary, the airlines would not have hesitated to split your group up, “reserved” seats be damned. A fat person who wants to book two seats in order to accommodate his bulk has to have both seats entered under one name, and the airline has to put a note on the reservation indicating that the two seats MUST be adjacent. And the seats have to be booked in a row where the armrests lift up (so not a bulkhead row), and generally can’t be in an exit row. That can’t currently be done on any online booking site that I am aware of. It has to be done over the phone. (A partial exception is Southwest - but only because they don’t have any assigned seating at all.) ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/65 "2013-03-28T19:19:42Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > No, you bought three seats for three separate people. Those websites don’t offer a way to book two seats for one person - and the seat assignments you got at the time you booked your flight were NOT guaranteed. If necessary, the airlines would not have hesitated to split your group up, “reserved” seats be damned. > > A fat person who wants to book two seats in order to accommodate his bulk has to have both seats entered under one name, and the airline has to put a note on the reservation indicating that the two seats MUST be adjacent. And the seats have to be booked in a row where the armrests lift up (so not a bulkhead row), and generally can’t be in an exit row. That can’t currently be done on any online booking site that I am aware of. It has to be done over the phone. > > (A partial exception is Southwest - but only because they don’t have any assigned seating at all.) I’m not sure why you’re so snarky. But here you go: [Southwest](http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/index-pol.html) > [@](#): > > Click “Air.” > Select your city pair(s) and travel date(s). > In the “Passengers” field, indicate the total number of seats needed by selecting that number of adults. (For example, if one Customer of size requires two seats and is traveling with one other adult in his/her party, select “3 Adults.”) > Proceed through the “Select Flight” and “Itinerary and Pricing” pages. > Complete the “Who’s Flying?” name fields for a Customer of size as follows: A Passenger named Tom Smith would designate Passenger One as “Tom Smith,” and Passenger Two as “Tom XS Smith” (first name Tom, middle name XS, and last name Smith). [JETBLUE](http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/webisapi.dll?New,Kb=askBlue,case=obj(382583)) > [@](#): > > Or, if you would like to book online, click on this link: Book a Flight and follow the directions below to book your extra seat: > > Follow the normal booking instructions but make the reservation for one extra person. > Book the first seat with your name; for example, SMITH/ROBERT. > Book the second seat with your last name and ‘extra seat’ as the first name; for example, SMITH/EXTRA SEAT. > Don’t forget to complete the seat assignments. And on and on. So it seems one just uses an alternate 2nd name. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/66 "2013-03-28T19:54:24Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > Heavier people on aircraft was a contributing factor on at least one crash. > [Air Midwest Flight 5481 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481) > > From 1995 to 2003, most airlines have assumed a weight of 180 pounds for each adult passenger in summer and 185 pounds in winter; checked bags are assumed to weigh 25 pounds each. > > Since 2003 the assumed weight has increased 10 lbs for people; each bag increased another 5 lbs; and unchecked baggage, like laptops, adds another 10 lbs. So some airlines are just going with 240 lbs per passenger average. did you mean carry on bags? Checked bags are weighed aren’t they? I think the solution is to make seats wrap-around so the patron is protected from spillover and configure planes with different sized seats with proportional pricing. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/67 "2013-03-28T20:10:22Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Cite from Wiki > > Although the pilots had totaled up the take-off weight of the aircraft before the flight and determined it to be within limits, the plane was actually overloaded and out of balance, due to the use of incorrect, but Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)-approved, passenger weight estimates. When checked, the National Transportation Safety Board found that the estimates were over 20 pounds (9kg) lighter than the actual weight of an average passenger. After checking the actual weight of baggage retrieved from the crash site, and passengers (based on information from next-of-kin and the medical examiner), it was found that the aircraft was actually 580 pounds (264kg) above its maximum allowable take-off weight, with its center of gravity 5% to the rear of the allowable limit. > It was determined that neither problem alone would have caused the loss of control, which explains why it departed Huntington, West Virginia safely. > [edit]Aftermath > > As a result of the weight issues discovered, the FAA planned to investigate and potentially revise estimated weight values, something that had not been done since 1936. Air Midwest used an average weight of 200 pounds (90.7kg) per passenger after the accident, but the NTSB suggests that airlines use actual weights instead of average. 70% of small air carriers still use average.[5] Air Midwest publicly apologized for the incident after the family of crash victim Christiana Grace Shepherd pressured the airline to do so. Air Midwest ceased operations in 2008.[5][9][10] > [edit] You seem to be leaving out a very important part of that wiki cite. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/68 "2013-03-28T20:52:25Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I’m not sure why you’re so snarky. But here you go: > [Southwest](http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/extra-seat/index-pol.html) > [JETBLUE](http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/webisapi.dll?New,Kb=askBlue,case=obj(382583)) > > And on and on. So it seems one just uses an alternate 2nd name. Hee. A “Customer of size”. I feel special. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/69 "2013-03-28T21:15:27Z")
I fly a lot. I use the armrest as the arbiter of whether or not the people seated next to me are encroaching on my space. If the armrest won’t go down because you’re too fat, I will ask the flight attendant to re-seat one of us (hint:you). This never used to be a problem, but the airlines are now much better at capacity planning, so there are rarely 2 open seats for those who might need them. Also, seat belt extenders. If you need a seat belt extender, you should buy two seats. I’m 6’4" and ~235lb, so I don’t have any extra room in my seating area for your flab. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/70 "2013-03-28T21:26:14Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > You seem to be leaving out a very important part of that wiki cite. Well that’s what I thought until I reread the first sentence: Heavier people on aircraft was a contributing factor on at least one crash. It’s typical in aircraft accidents that it’s a combination of factors. In this case it was weight, center of gravity, and maintenance issues. Not sure if it was true on this flight but the maintenance manuals were wrong regarding tail rigging. Had the pilots figured out the CG problem in time they could have ordered passengers to the front of the plane. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/71 "2013-03-28T21:35:25Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > You seem to be leaving out a very important part of that wiki cite. It’s this one: [Air Midwest Flight 5481](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481). The criminally incompetent elevator maintenance was the prime contributing factor to that crash. The weight imbalance would not have caused the accident on its own. ---
**Author:** ![destineal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@destineal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/destineal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/72 "2013-03-28T21:48:59Z")
The only issue I ever had was a really tall guy-probably 6’7" or so-not especially fat. He sat down, went to sleep, spread his legs out as far as they would go, commandeered both armrests and snored loudly the whole time. Miserable. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/73 "2013-03-28T21:59:55Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It’s this one: [Air Midwest Flight 5481](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481). > > The criminally incompetent elevator maintenance was the prime contributing factor to that crash. The weight imbalance would not have caused the accident on its own. Right, that was my point. couger58 said “So in fact, over weight passengers can kill you.” and proceeded to only post the part of the wiki article that talked about the weight imbalance. I wanted to point out that heavier than average passengers were not the only cause of the accident. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/74 "2013-03-28T22:54:06Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It’s this one: [Air Midwest Flight 5481](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481). > > The criminally incompetent elevator maintenance was the prime contributing factor to that crash. The weight imbalance would not have caused the accident on its own. not sure about criminally incompetent. [There was a maintenance manual issue with conflicting information](http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/FAA_Inaction/colganair-2.html). I’ve run into this before on an engine assembly. Can’t remember how we resolved it. Probably called the manufacturer. You have to realize there’s a discrepancy between one part of a manual and another. I would expect anything that is worked on to be flight tested. That was deliberately not done in this case. I’m a low time flyer of simple aircraft and I’ve seen all manner of improper assembly. Some of them coming directly from the manufacturer. It doesn’t take much to ruin your day in an airplane. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/75 "2013-03-28T23:00:56Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Right, that was my point. couger58 said “So in fact, over weight passengers can kill you.” and proceeded to only post the part of the wiki article that talked about the weight imbalance. I wanted to point out that heavier than average passengers were not the only cause of the accident. He/she stated up front that weight was a contributing factor. The plane was overweight and out of CG. That means if the rigging was the only problem they would not have crashed. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/76 "2013-03-28T23:16:05Z")
Bottom line comes down to the fact that Airlines make seats too small (to fit in as many people as possible) and plan for outdated and ludicrously low average weight figures. Then they excuse it by throwing the word “average” around, as if that really means anything. If we planned for ‘average’ database usage and bandwidth on my job and nothing more, we’d be completely fucked a significant percent of the time. One flight full of businessmen (read: all adult males) on their way to a conference and those ‘average’ (17" width, 200 pounds including baggage) figures are dangerously inadequate. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/77 "2013-03-29T02:34:45Z")
Outdated and ludicrously low weight figures? If by that, you mean “people have gotten fatter”, yes. But I consider myself average height and weird and I only have a problem with seat sizes when people spill into mine. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/78 "2013-03-29T04:05:08Z")
I’m quite short and of normal weight, but have pretty broad shoulders - about 16" wide. EVERY time I fly I am next to someone whose shoulders are also wide, but since they’re usually taller, their shoulders are even wider and they end up mashing into me. I have not ever been seated next to someone who is so overweight that they impinge on my space, just the shoulder thing. I hate being pressed up against strangers. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/79 "2013-03-29T04:14:17Z")
Most of my long-haul flights are in and out of Seoul. It’s pretty hard to find a Korean that’s too big to fit into an airplane seat. The flights we take within Europe are usually on smaller planes that have two seats next to the window instead of three seats, so we don’t have to worry about rubbing shoulders with strangers. I have taken a few flights on my own in the past few years, but I can’t remember ever being crowded by an obese neighbor. I am pretty small, though. Honestly the problem I’ve run into most often is children sitting behind me and kicking my seat. Thankfully it’s never happened on long-haul flights. For some reason it only ever happens when we’re flying into the UK from another European country. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130/80 "2013-03-29T05:35:01Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I’m quite short and of normal weight, but have pretty broad shoulders - about 16" wide. :dubious: How are 16" shoulders pretty broad? That sounds **tiny**. I am very slender and have never had trouble fitting in an airline seat (or any other type of narrow seat) and I just measured my own shoulders at 17". [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-fat-people-on-airplanes-becoming-a-big-problem/654130.md?page=5)