[QUOTE=Siam Sam]
I’m the foreigner here. It’s the locals who are quite loud. And oh man, don’t EVEN get me started on China.
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So am I correct? In your observation are asians who speak a tonal language louder talkers then other cultures that don’t?
[QUOTE=Malodorous]
So am I correct? In your observation are asians who speak a tonal language louder talkers then other cultures that don’t?
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I’m utterly unqualified to answer the question, but I am actually trying to learn Mandarin, and from the work I’ve done so far, the recordings I’ve listened to, and the few one-on-one lessons I’ve taken, it doesn’t really seem that tonal languages (or Mandarin, at least) are necessarily louder. Of course, my experience is very small and I’ve never lived in an Asian country.
Other people have mentioned that the very sound of a language other than your own can make it seem to stand out. Maybe it’s possible that on top of this phenomenon, the so-called “sing-song” effect of a tonal language makes it seem to stand out even more?
[QUOTE=Malodorous]
The gf’s family are first generation Vietnamese immigrants, and I find them and their community to be very loud talkers (both when speaking English and Vietnamese). . . .
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Here in San Jose, there’s a large population of Vietnamese immigrants. I read once in our local paper that there are classes for new immigrants on how to fit in with American culture, and that the first thing they are taught is that their conversations in Vietnamese can often sound like angry, shrill fighting to English-speaking Americans. This, the article stated, was often a bewildering discovery to the new immigrants. The classes strove to teach them to lower their voices as a means of getting along better in a new country.
I think Cantonese is pretty loud - and my Cantonese-speaking workmates agree with that assessment. A friend of mine from Hong Kong did a backpacking tour of Europe with a girlfriend of hers. She reported that they had to make a conscious effort to quieten down because of the reproachful looks they were getting from fellow bus and train passengers. She also said that this happened the most in England, and didn’t happen AT ALL in Italy, where they fitted right in. Score 1 for the stereotypes.
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
I think Cantonese is pretty loud - and my Cantonese-speaking workmates agree with that assessment. A friend of mine from Hong Kong did a backpacking tour of Europe with a girlfriend of hers. She reported that they had to make a conscious effort to quieten down because of the reproachful looks they were getting from fellow bus and train passengers. She also said that this happened the most in England, and didn’t happen AT ALL in Italy, where they fitted right in. Score 1 for the stereotypes.
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I’m not sure exactly what this means. If I learn to speak Cantonese, will I speak it louder than I speak English? Or do you mean only that native speakers of Cantonese speak more loudly than native speakers of other languages, except (in this case) Italian? Does that mean all speakers of Cantonese speak loudly? If I go to a graduate seminar on structural engineering in a Cantonese university, will the seminar be much louder than a similar seminar in an American or British university?
I have a feeling that the notion of “loud” languages encourages generalization based on selected experiences/anecdotes. And I have a feeling that wealth, education, sophistication and social status, taken together, are a better predictor than race of how loudly a person speaks. People who are wealthy, accomplished, highly educated and who have a concern for how they are viewed by others usually don’t speak very loudly. They don’t clamor, they don’t make a racket, they don’t raise their voice to talk over others. And I think this is true in every race.
Living in Canada, as I now do, I frequently have the opportunity to see Canadians point out a group of American tourists and say things such as: “God, Americans are so loud, obnoxious and obese!” This is patently ridiculous. I’m sure the majority of Amercian tourists are polite and quiet and…(well, might be pushing it to say slender).
At the same time, if you watch American reality television, and you see Nick Carter bellowing like a wounded elephant, his mid-life crisis father staggering hoarsely around the compound, his whiny brother throwing another hissy fit and his jiggly sisters bawling massively, you’d have to think that maybe the loud American sterotype holds true.
Anyway, I traffic in sterotypes as much as anyone. I just think mangetout has opened a very large can of worms with this one.
My sister has just returned from a long stay in Hong Kong, and when we’ve encouraged her into demonstrations of Cantonese, she has quite clearly acquired some very unfamiliar vowel sounds. And these are very strong sounds, which especially if the language does not combine vowels, can make these prominent and ‘loud’.
[QUOTE=Malodorous]
So am I correct? In your observation are asians who speak a tonal language louder talkers then other cultures that don’t?
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Yes, you are, in my opinion, correct.
Thais have a reputation for being soft-spoken, and some are, but I’ll tell ya, when I’m sitting in front of a couple of squawkers on the bus, I have to wonder how all of them got that reputation. And most of them don’t even really need a cellphone, as I think the party on the other end of the line can hear them just fine without one, if you know what I mean. There are some really loud Thais.
[QUOTE=Lunar Saltlick]
I have a feeling that the notion of “loud” languages encourages generalization based on selected experiences/anecdotes. And I have a feeling that wealth, education, sophistication and social status, taken together, are a better predictor than race of how loudly a person speaks. People who are wealthy, accomplished, highly educated and who have a concern for how they are viewed by others usually don’t speak very loudly. They don’t clamor, they don’t make a racket, they don’t raise their voice to talk over others. And I think this is true in every race.
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I’ve found this to be partly true among “upper class” Thais – wealthy, educated, however you want to define it. But, man! A wealthy Thai businessman tends to want people around him to KNOW how wealthy, important, etc., he is, and he will often scream into his phone for the benefit of others around him.
[QUOTE=Lunar Saltlick]
I have a feeling that the notion of “loud” languages encourages generalization based on selected experiences/anecdotes. And I have a feeling that wealth, education, sophistication and social status, taken together, are a better predictor than race of how loudly a person speaks. People who are wealthy, accomplished, highly educated and who have a concern for how they are viewed by others usually don’t speak very loudly. They don’t clamor, they don’t make a racket, they don’t raise their voice to talk over others. And I think this is true in every race.
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I’ve found this to be partly true among “upper class” Thais – wealthy, educated, however you want to define it. But, man! A wealthy Thai businessman tends to want people around him to KNOW how wealthy, important, etc., he is, and he will often scream into his phone for the benefit of others around him.
And what are called here the “hi so” people (high society) live in their own world. These are often spoiled rich spoiled brats who make the news by shooting other spoiled brats and getting off with daddy’s money. (In one notorious case a few years ago, one shot a policeman dead in a crowded pub in full view of witnesses and STILL got off scot-free.) They are usually very loud, too, just because they can be.
Travellers to countries that speak a different language are very often loud, because of the natural human reaction to speak louder when you feel you are not being heard or understood. Thsi is why Americans got such a bad name for it; for a while after WWII they were the bulk of the mass tourist market. This doesn’t apply to some groups such as the Japanese, who tend to travel in large groups with a guide who does speak the local language, and so do not need to interact much with the locals.
[QUOTE=The Librarian]
Compared to typical American tourists, most Brits are positively stealth-visitors.
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Actually, recent polls of hoteliers around the world rank the British as the most obnoxious of all tourists while the Americans are second only to Germany. Not that I believe these studies have much merit, I just think it’s time to put the “Ugly American” stereotype to bed and admit that people, in general, are “Ugly” when confronted with new cultures. Americans simply comprised a significant portion of world’s tourists for many years. Interesting NYT article on the subject.
I really don’t want this question to be about tourists. The question is whether some cultures are naturally more vocally loud than others, in typical everyday contexts, not when they’re on holiday.
My Chinese/Malay friend assures me that it is in her culture to speak loudly and when they migrated to England it took a long time for her to learn and remember to speak quietly. She still finds it difficult and raises her voice on occasion. But I forgive her because she brought me back a jade necklace and bracelet from Burma and I just found out what they are worth phaw.
I remember once having a conducted tour of Las Scala in Milan. This was in the morning and on stage were several stage-hands “discussing” the best way the rig the scenery for that night’s performance. They were all shouting at the top of their voices. It sounded horrendous but I imagine to them this was just a normal conversation.
[QUOTE=Mangetout]
…The question is whether some cultures are naturally more vocally loud than others, in typical everyday contexts, not when they’re on holiday.
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I would say a qualified no. In every culture, there are people who speak loudly, and people who speak softly, for a very wide variety of reasons. I’m sure linguists have studied the subject, and have found that it does in fact take a louder voice, or a certain emphasis, to produce certain sounds in certain languages, but I don’t think that’s the question you’re really asking.
I think we get a very poor idea of how other cultures behave based on a very limited experience of those cultures, or, worse, based on a long experience *of one or two slices * of that culture. That’s most definitely the case in Canada, where Americans, tourists or otherwise, are widely held to be loud, obnoxious and overbearing.
[QUOTE=bathsheba]
My Chinese/Malay friend assures me that it is in her culture to speak loudly and when they migrated to England it took a long time for her to learn and remember to speak quietly. She still finds it difficult and raises her voice on occasion. But I forgive her because she brought me back a jade necklace and bracelet from Burma and I just found out what they are worth phaw.
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Phaw?
[QUOTE=Sublight]
Japanese consider most westerners loud, but Americans and Aussies moreso than Brits.
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In my experience Australians are the loudest people on earth; they seem to want to yell everything. Far, far louder than Americans.
Is english the SLOWEST spoken language? I don’t think that other cultures are louder-they just speak faster. Although I also think that lightly-accented languages are harder to understand, unless you speak fairly louly.
Im interested in all the replies that indicate that native mandarin speakers are louder. I have quite a few friends/coworkers that have been in this country less than 15 yrs and I would catagorize every one of them as very soft spoken. Mostly in english, but even when talking amongst themselves in their native tongue.
I’ve stayed at campgrounds in Delaware on several occasions where there were french speaking families (I assume from Canada). They were all very loud without exception.
My theory is that when people assume that no one overhearing them can understand their conversation, they are less inclined to lower their voices.
[QUOTE=Solfy]
Im interested in all the replies that indicate that native mandarin speakers are louder…
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As far as I can tell, only one poster has mentioned Mandarin. It was me, and I said it didn’t seem to me that native speakers of that language spoke louder than anyone else.
As to your remark about French Canadians, all I can say is, in my experience (pretty wide, actually) some speak loudly, and some don’t.