# Are games getting worse, or are we just getting jaded? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 5, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347 "2010-08-05T23:03:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/41 "2010-08-06T15:24:30Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Can anyone name anything made in the last 10 years which truly breaks the old molds? [Not rhetorical necessarily-if something truly innovative exists name it] Battlefield 1942. Left 4 Dead. DotA. Oblivion. Wii. GTA3. That’s all I can do in 5 minutes. Oh, Little Big World. A lot of bads games are being listed in this thread as good though. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/42 "2010-08-06T15:25:45Z")
Well, lemme think here. The OP cited these six games: > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Starcraft, Diablo, Metal Gear Solid, Gears of War, Grand Theft Auto and Mass Effect/KOTOR So there’s an RTS, a dungeon crawler, a stealth game, an FPS, a sandbox game, and RPGs. Six genres? They may be the very top sellers, but you’re overlooking quite a few seriously popular genres. For one thing, you left out Racing. Forza, Burnout, Blur, Grid, Midnight Club, Project Gotham, and even Mario Kart would all like a word with you. And companies that make Rhythm games, such as Rock Band, Guitar Hero, and Dance Dance Revolution, are making so much cash that they’re going bankrupt storing all their money, and that doesn’t even make sense! Other huge genres: Survival Horror (Silent Hill, Fatal Frame) Hack and Slash (God of War series, No More Heroes, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry) Fighting (Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom, Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe) Platformers (Mario games, Mirror’s Edge, Splosion Man) Puzzle platformers (Braid, Limbo, The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom) Sports (like I really have to name titles here) If you look around, you can find new games of all varieties, like two-stick shooters, puzzle and trivia games, stuff that’s hard to categorize like Phoenix Wright and Trauma Center… Basically, it’s kinda like how the most popular ice cream flavor in the world is vanilla. There’s a comforting bland sameness in the top-selling titles that appeals to the masses. But, if you really do want something different, it’s pretty easy to find something original and great. Another reason why this is a great time to be a gamer: demos. It wasn’t that long ago that buying a game was a totally blind experience; you could read reviews and see some pictures in a magazine, but if you wanted to try it out, you either needed a friend to buy it first, or play a few minutes in a store if you were lucky enough to find a demo booth with the game set up. Now, you can download a demo, with ridiculously minimal effort, and play whole portions of the game fer-real. Demos are what enticed me into Brutal Legend, Ghostbusters, and Left 4 Dead. It’s a great time to be a gamer! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/43 "2010-08-06T15:28:06Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Can anyone name anything made in the last 10 years which truly breaks the old molds? [Not rhetorical necessarily-if something truly innovative exists name it] The best I can think of is **Mirror’s Edge**. Nothing else like it, before or since. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/44 "2010-08-06T15:32:36Z")
For those that think games are getting worse, imagine, for a moment, that the evolution of games is reversed. 20 years ago we were all playing Call of Duty 4, Portal, Gears of War 2, Civ 5, etc, all of the games that are popular today. Then as the years progress the games come out in reverse, back to COD1, Halo and so on, through the Civ series, approaching today the latest bestest games are called space invaders, Civ 1, frogger, etc. Answer this honestly, do you _really_ think you’ll be lapping up the “latest” games and saying they’re the best thing ever? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/45 "2010-08-06T15:34:43Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > > > Can anyone name anything made in the last 10 years which truly breaks the old molds? [Not rhetorical necessarily-if something truly innovative exists name it] > > Battlefield 1942. Left 4 Dead. DotA. Oblivion. Wii. GTA3. > > That’s all I can do in 5 minutes. Oh, Little Big World. > > A lot of bads games are being listed in this thread as good though. Obscure little game called Guitar Hero. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/46 "2010-08-06T15:39:18Z")
…is the same as a billion other rhythm games. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/47 "2010-08-06T15:40:46Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > …is the same as a billion other rhythm games. …which are all based off Guitar Hero and DDR. Just because they spawned a hundred copycats doesn’t mean _they_ were unoriginal. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/48 "2010-08-06T15:41:29Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Can anyone name anything made in the last 10 years which truly breaks the old molds? Dwarf Fortress is pretty much _sui generis_. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/49 "2010-08-06T15:46:13Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@Palooka](#): > > > > …is the same as a billion other rhythm games. > > …which are all based off Guitar Hero and DDR. Just because they spawned a hundred copycats doesn’t mean _they_ were unoriginal. You have your timelime backwards. Guitar Hero is the modern version of an untold number of 90s arcade games. There is nothing original about it. Hell, you even mention DDR, which is like 15 years old or something. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/50 "2010-08-06T15:49:50Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > > [@Bosstone](#): > > > > …which are all based off Guitar Hero and DDR. Just because they spawned a hundred copycats doesn’t mean _they_ were unoriginal. > > You have your timelime backwards. Guitar Hero is the modern version of an untold number of 90s arcade games. There is nothing original about it. > > Hell, you even mention DDR, which is like 15 years old or something. And I bet you can’t even name one of that “untold number.” ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/51 "2010-08-06T15:53:10Z")
Simon. Track & Field. Crash 'n Da Boys. Little Ninja Brothers. Uh… Parappa. Chop chop kick. Beatmania! Probably a bunch of powerpad games too. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/52 "2010-08-06T15:55:14Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Simon. Ah, yes, I remember playing that in the video arcades during my youth. Come on, man. You might as well call Pong derivative because tennis existed first. ETA: You serious? If you’re actually calling those “rhythm games” then nothing original has been made. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/53 "2010-08-06T16:07:37Z")
If you don’t consider games that solely require you to push buttons in a rhythmic fashion rhythm games, I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t believe I need to prove that Guitar Hero is unoriginal. Go look up Guitar Freaks. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/54 "2010-08-06T16:13:34Z")
Hey, there you go! A game that’s actually remotely like Guitar Hero, even if it doesn’t look like it made it to North America in any numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/55 "2010-08-06T16:28:02Z")
Goddamnit. I promised myself I wouldn’t argue with WoW players after that RealID thing. You’re right, Guitar Hero is original. I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/56 "2010-08-06T16:32:10Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Goddamnit. I promised myself I wouldn’t argue with WoW players after that RealID thing. You’re right, Guitar Hero is original. I’m out. What the hell does that have to do with it? Don’t be a bads, bro. I’m still trying to figure out how Track & Field, Crash 'n Da Boys, and Little Ninja Brothers are anything remotely like rhythm games. The last one is a freaking action RPG. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/57 "2010-08-06T17:06:23Z")
> [@merrick](#): > > Photo-realistic graphics? Often end up making it harder to see what’s actually going on, and even more often make the inevitable departures from reality more jarring. You don’t expect an 8-bit sprite to act like a person, but you do notice when a well-animated 3D character is floating two inches off the ground, or walking in straight lines and right angles, or doesn’t notice that you’ve just shot the guy standing next to him with a BFG. Indeed. We’ve discussed this a bit over in the big World of Warcraft thread. WoW’s character models continue to look “cartoony” compared to the more realistic-looking models in some other MMORPGs, but it’s actually beneficial. You don’t get that “uncanny valley” feeling when the characters don’t move exactly the way a real person would move. > [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > > [@Todderbob](#): > > > > It’s all about how Jaded we are. > > > > What’s the best game, then? Super Mario Brothers, for the SNES (example). Go back and play it – it’s shit. It’s nowhere near as fun as Super Mario Galaxy, for the Wii (example) – but, until you go back and play it, you don’t know it’s shit. > > Do you mean Super Mario **Bros**. on the NES or Super Mario **World** on the SNES? Either way, I just replayed both no more than a few months ago and throughly enjoyed both. > > I’m firmly of the belief that fun is timeless, and some of the oldest games are the ones that best realized this. > > Mario Galaxy 2 is fantastic though, but Mario 64’s still my favorite. > [@merrick](#): > > Add in industry conservatism, gamer conservatism (with games costing $50 and up, people tend to stick with what they know) and the tendency to rely on the crutch of ever-faster processors, and you end up emphasising chrome over gameplay. And that’s a problem, because while chrome may make people buy a game, gameplay is what makes them remember it. I recognized back then that quality gameplay was more important than fancy graphics, and I think Nintendo recognized that as well. It’s largely why they became so successful so quickly. I liked this: > **[The 7 Commandments All Video Games Should Obey](https://www.cracked.com/article_16196_the-7-commandments-all-video-games-should-obey.html)** > > We are here to condemn Grand Theft Auto IV, and other equally great games, not out of hatred, but out of love. For it does no good to point out the flaws in bad games as bad games by definition cannot be saved. > No, we aim to save gaming from the... > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > For those that think games are getting worse, imagine, for a moment, that the evolution of games is reversed. 20 years ago we were all playing Call of Duty 4, Portal, Gears of War 2, Civ 5, etc, all of the games that are popular today. Then as the years progress the games come out in reverse, back to COD1, Halo and so on, through the Civ series, approaching today the latest bestest games are called space invaders, Civ 1, frogger, etc. Answer this honestly, do you _really_ think you’ll be lapping up the “latest” games and saying they’re the best thing ever? I think not. Heh. I played both WarCraft 2 and Diablo II without having played the first versions of either. After “mastering” the “2” versions, I tried to go back and play the “1” versions. Couldn’t do it, because they just felt so doggone clunky. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/58 "2010-08-06T17:55:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > > [@GESancMan](#): > > > > As far as CRPGs: bull. > > > > I’ve been playing them for more than 25 years, and they most certainly _were_ better fifteen and twenty years ago. They were challenging. There were puzzles to be figured out - and you weren’t handed the answers on a silver platter. They made you _think_. Today’s games pale in comparison - they’ve been dumbed down beyond belief, it’s all about the eye candy now. > > Four Crystals of Trazere? That was some thinking. Never heard of it, but I just looked it up, and it was released in 1992. > [@Merijeek](#): > > I don’t think there was much better than the Baldur’s Gate series. NWN was supposed to be…but as someone above put it, it became 3D. Which fucked up all sorts of things. I love BGI and BGII, but they do suffer a bit from the dumbing down I spoke of. The perfect example is in BGII: there’s that fortress outside the city that’s been overrun by trolls. Trolls can only be killed by fire or acid, and the game warns you about this on a regular basis. Every box, barrel, chest and crate in the fortress is chock full of fire arrows and acid arrows - how convenient. If this game had been written by the makers of _Ultima_ or _Might & Magic_, the player would have found out the hard way that trolls can only be killed in this fashion - or perhaps there would have been a clue if you happened to talk to the right person somewhere else, far removed from there. And if the player didn’t have the means to finish off a troll they’d be shit out of luck - time to go back to town and make some purchases or learn some new spells. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/59 "2010-08-06T18:02:49Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > We’re getting jaded. Show a young boy Foghorn Leghorn cartoons and he’ll prefer SpongeBob, while all sense of taste and a Universe of logic agree that the kid is flat out retarded. The kid will prefer Spongebob because Spongebob is a better cartoon - it is, in fact, one of the best cartoons ever made. Similarly, even the most jaded gamer would be forced to admit there are SOME good games. I don’t like gaming as much as I used to but, look, WoW is awesome. Civ 4 was awesome and Civ 5 likely will be too. KOTOR was awesome, though I guess it isn’t a new game anymore. Bioshock was awesome. The Grad Theft Auto games are awesome. Innovative? Well, we did’t have music games at all 15 years ago. There weren’t active motion games like the Wii (well, there were some primitive ones.) And there’s always new twists on old ideas - look at LittleBigPlanet. Going back 15 years, the mix of games was about the same, really. Most games were mediocre, a few were awesome. For every TIE Fighter there were 15 crap games. ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347/60 "2010-08-06T18:18:04Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Imho, console games killed the PC market. Back in the day, 100k sales was a bestselling video game. 1 million sales was unheard of, and the only way to do it was to publish 5+ successful games in a series (e.g. the King’s Quest series, Ultima series, Wizardry series, etc.) As you can imagine, selling 100k copies of something usually means you aren’t going to stay in business very long, especially when you take into account the years of development and advertising necessary to make even one game. > > When consoles came out, 1 million in pre-order sales was the norm. Successful console games today sell [10, 20 or even 60 million copies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games). The video game makers were happy indeed. > > The problem though is that console gamers aren’t very good gamers. Thumb controls are very hard to use and it’s impossible to have the fine movement like with a joystick or mouse. Therefore, games started getting more and more simplistic. A really good example of this was to compare Ultima 4 for the PC vs Ultima for the Nintendo. The Nintendo version is roughly 10% of the content of the PC version. > > Today, best-selling video games require only the basest of hand-eye coordination. Tournament gamers never, ever use the thumbpad. When PC games were ported to the consoles, the quality and content dropped immensely. > > Now, games are made for the consoles first, and some no longer come out in PC versions (e.g. Madden series.) The money just isn’t there, and quality of the game keeps getting worse and worse because people continue to buy them. WTF are you talking about? All the biggest money game tournaments in the world are console based FPSs. Console gamers aren’t good gamers? That’s a ridiculous contention. Come play Killzone 2 tonight. I’ll headshot you dead twenty times before you even get a shot off in my general direction. And I suck compared to the guys that are really good. PC FPSs are too easy and require far less hand-eye coordination. They’re point and click. And games keep getting worse and worse because of consoles? Sounds more like you’re bitter because almost all the good games go to consoles and not PC anymore. Sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-games-getting-worse-or-are-we-just-getting-jaded/549347.md?page=4)