# Are Golf Courses Ecological Nightmares? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 17, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273 "2008-06-17T23:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/1 "2008-06-17T23:25:15Z")
To me, golf courses are pretty disgusting wastes, for a game that is enjoyed by a small group. The courses consume huge amounts of water, and the fertilizer runoff from them pollutes nearby ponds and rivers. In addition, the golf carts emit ozone and accelerate global warming. They also drive up the price of land, and hence food costs. Are golf courses ecologically unsound? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/2 "2008-06-17T23:45:10Z")
This OP is a likely finalist in the “General Questions asked in such a way as to ensure they wind up in Great Debates” category. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/3 "2008-06-18T00:09:44Z")
Some courses pride themselves on being [environmentally](http://www.goodmoney.com/golf.htm) friendly; YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/4 "2008-06-18T00:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] To me, golf courses are pretty disgusting wastes, for a game that is enjoyed by a small group. The courses consume huge amounts of water, and the fertilizer runoff from them pollutes nearby ponds and rivers. In addition, the golf carts emit ozone and accelerate global warming. They also drive up the price of land, and hence food costs. Are golf courses ecologically unsound? :smack: [/QUOTE] _When_ did you stop beating your wife, anyway? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/5 "2008-06-18T00:26:55Z")
Golf courses stop suburban landscapes from being paved over. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/6 "2008-06-18T00:28:39Z")
Maybe we can get everybody to switch to [Farmersgolf](http://www.farmersgolf.com/english/). ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/7 "2008-06-18T01:12:28Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] golf carts emit ozone and accelerate global warming. [/QUOTE] Aren’t most golf carts electric? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/8 "2008-06-18T01:15:52Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Are golf courses ecologically unsound? :smack: [/QUOTE] Not all are: [http://www.golfti.com/puntacana/](http://www.golfti.com/puntacana/) ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/9 "2008-06-18T02:05:19Z")
[QUOTE=Xema] This OP is a likely finalist in the “General Questions asked in such a way as to ensure they wind up in Great Debates” category. [/QUOTE] We’ve [done it there](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=424983) before… ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/10 "2008-06-18T02:08:14Z")
If golfers were tough enough to deal with a little bit of clover or a bald patch or two, golf courses would be ecological havens. If some idiot didn’t keep plunking them down in the desert. Clue: golf was invented in [Scotland](http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/location/scotland/). “Even so, parts of Angus, Fife, the Lothians, Ayrshire, and Dumfries and Galloway average over 1,400 hours of sunshine per year.” (out of 8760 total hours in a year) “Typically, measurable rainfall (an amount of 0.2 mm or more) occurs on over 250 days per year over much of the Highlands, decreasing to around 175 days per year on the Angus, Fife and East Lothian coasts” (roughly half to seventy percent). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/11 "2008-06-18T02:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] The courses consume huge amounts of water [/quote] Plentiful water is an ecological nightmare? > [@](#): > > and the fertilizer runoff from them pollutes nearby ponds and rivers I’d be decently certain that it’s less runoff than farms produce, and similarly controlled by the Department of Agriculture or the EPA or someone. > [@](#): > > In addition, the golf carts emit ozone and accelerate global warming :dubious: A) Golf courses are most often in dry climates that have sparse plant life. By bringing in all that green growing stuff they’re just as likely taking more CO2 out of the air than golf carts are putting in. B) The entire world population of golf carts CO2 output is so small compared to other things like the incandescent light bulb (which could be replaced with LED bulbs or what-have-you) that it’s not even worth considering. > [@](#): > > They also drive up the price of land, and hence food costs. Golf courses aren’t generally put in instead of farms, so they have little to nothing to do with food costs. They create jobs and provide an attraction to bring in tourists, so a successful one is going to overall increase the general wealth of the nearby area. > [@](#): > > Are golf courses ecologically unsound? :smack: Not on a world-stopping magnitude by any means if so. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/12 "2008-06-18T03:29:18Z")
It is hard for a golf course to stay a golf course if the land becomes valuable. Many in Michigan get sold and become subdivisions. Thats good for the environment. More concrete and buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/13 "2008-06-18T06:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Plentiful water is an ecological nightmare? [/quote] A golf course that consumes a lot of water where little is available is. > [@](#): > > I’d be decently certain that it’s less runoff than farms produce, and similarly controlled by the Department of Agriculture or the EPA or someone. I don’t think they are. The pesticides they use typically require a licensed responsible party who takes on some significant liabilities, but fertilizers are pretty much free for all. When the focus is on beautiful grass, over-application or the wrong fertilizer selection is common - these can contribute to eutrophication in downstream surface waters. Crop farms aren’t heavily regulated (I know farmers would tell you differently, but I’m speaking comparatively) - the EPA really only gets into agriculture for high-density animal production. Unless you’re using reclaimed sewage sludge as fertilizers or watering with treated effluent, the EPA doesn’t care much about how you fertilize and water your greens. > [@](#): > > A) Golf courses are most often in dry climates that have sparse plant life. By bringing in all that green growing stuff they’re just as likely taking more CO2 out of the air than golf carts are putting in. All that green growing stuff requires a much greater amount of resources to raise and maintain than it gives back - especially in dry areas where it doesn’t grow naturally. In addition to the golf carts, you’ve got mowers and sprayers, weed eaters, leaf blowers, etc. Since most golf carts are electric, the maintenance fleet (especially the 2-cycle engines) would be responsible for the majority of CO2 emissions. > [@](#): > > Golf courses aren’t generally put in instead of farms, so they have little to nothing to do with food costs. They create jobs and provide an attraction to bring in tourists, so a successful one is going to overall increase the general wealth of the nearby area. And the environmental costs are conveniently externalized and born by the community at large. What a deal! ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/14 "2008-06-18T06:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] In addition, the golf carts emit ozone [/QUOTE] No, they do not. > **[Ozone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone)** > > Ozone (/ˈoʊzoʊn/ ⓘ), also called trioxygen, is an inorganic molecule with the chemical formula O3. It is a pale-blue gas with a distinctively pungent odour. It is an allotrope of oxygen that is much less stable than the diatomic allotrope O2, breaking down in the lower atmosphere to O2 (dioxygen). Ozone is formed from dioxygen by the action of ultraviolet (UV) light and electrical discharges within the Earth's atmosphere. It is present in very low concentrations throughout the atmosphere, with it... ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/15 "2008-06-18T07:45:25Z")
The motors may emit small quantities of ozone, depending on their design and state of wear - or they may not. But even if they do, that surely can’t be very high on any serious list of eco-criticisms of golf courses. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/16 "2008-06-18T11:07:23Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] A) Golf courses are most often in dry climates that have sparse plant life. By bringing in all that green growing stuff they’re just as likely taking more CO2 out of the air than golf carts are putting in. B) The entire world population of golf carts CO2 output is so small compared to other things like the incandescent light bulb (which could be replaced with LED bulbs or what-have-you) that it’s not even worth considering. [/QUOTE] He didn’t say CO2, he said ozone. Golf carts are electric, so yes they probably do generate a bit of ozone. But ozone is not a greenhouse gas as far as I know. It _is_ a pollutant when present at ground level, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/17 "2008-06-18T13:48:16Z")
The golf course on Aruba (a desert island) is apparently watered using treated sewage from the island’s hotels. We were encouraged to excrete copiously during our stay. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/18 "2008-06-18T14:41:51Z")
For golf courses that have a lot of water features do any of them draw from them to water the greens? Or do they go directly off a main supply line? ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/19 "2008-06-18T15:42:11Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] For golf courses that have a lot of water features do any of them draw from them to water the greens? Or do they go directly off a main supply line? [/QUOTE] I calculated this demand one time for the City’s soccer fields. The problem is, they had to dig a well to keep the pond full - so it was using well water in the end, anyway. In arid regions especially you would be hard pressed to get sufficient rainfall to capture in a water feature, for the end purpose of watering. If the water feature were located in an area with sufficient ranfall, and had enough storage, it’s do-able. I didn’t exactly answer your question though - I don’t know if any of them do it or not. I’ve not heard of it being done locally. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273/20 "2008-06-18T15:47:24Z")
There was an interesting article in the San Diego Union-Tribune recently about [wildlife management on golf courses](http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080612/news_1c12golf.html). The jist of it is that golf courses don’t necessarily have to be ecological disasters; there turn out to be a fair number of simple things that golf course managers can do to make their land more wildlife-friendly. > [@Sunspace](#): > > Golf courses stop suburban landscapes from being paved over. As one biologist is quoted in the article, “a golf course isn’t as good as nature, but it’s better than a Wal-Mart parking lot.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-golf-courses-ecological-nightmares/453273.md?page=2)