# Are green energy companies like Viridian and Glacial really a MLM scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664 "2010-07-14T15:21:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/61 "2010-09-22T16:44:48Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > > [@skargo](#): > > > > Why you would kind of think maybe it should be closed? It has been civil, within the rules(mostly but mods have fixed any transgression) and it’s been educational. 😕 > > Check the join dates of every single participant in the thread besides me (including you). I see your point, and besides my points I made in my last reply to you, I am tending to agree. I was trying to defend the company I am associated with, WITHOUT pimping my product, but it seems like others find that impossible to do. Greed ruins everything. You have my vote on closing this thread too 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/62 "2010-09-22T17:00:15Z")
> [@skargo](#): > > > [@Frylock](#): > > > > Check the join dates of every single participant in the thread besides me (including you). > > I see your point, and besides my points I made in my last reply to you, I am tending to agree. I was trying to defend the company I am associated with, WITHOUT pimping my product, but it seems like others find that impossible to do. > Greed ruins everything. > > You have my vote on closing this thread too 😉 Heh you are disarming. 😛 But actually, I reported this thread a long time ago and they decided to leave it. And it is a grey area. You’re right that you guys aren’t breaking any rules. But I’m glad you see my point (as ably illustrated by **jjimm**.) Whatever happens to the thread I hope to see you around the boards in other threads. You seem reasonably clearheaded. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/63 "2010-09-22T17:04:13Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > > [@skargo](#): > > > > I see your point, and besides my points I made in my last reply to you, I am tending to agree. I was trying to defend the company I am associated with, WITHOUT pimping my product, but it seems like others find that impossible to do. > > Greed ruins everything. > > > > You have my vote on closing this thread too 😉 > > Heh you are disarming. 😛 > > But actually, I reported this thread a long time ago and they decided to leave it. > > And it is a grey area. You’re right that you guys aren’t breaking any rules. But I’m glad you see my point (as ably illustrated by **jjimm**.) > > Whatever happens to the thread I hope to see you around the boards in other threads. You seem reasonably clearheaded. 😉 Thanks! I think hehehehe. I have lurked a bit around here, and recently have been reading a LOT. This board is great. I used to always look forward to the Straight Dope in the Baltimore City Paper, but it’s not there anymore, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![alfzampi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@alfzampi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alfzampi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/64 "2010-10-11T22:33:26Z")
Read all I could about being sales [associate.Co](http://associate.Co). wants $399 to become associate but they don’t really give you any info.The compensation plan,fund raising plan,any sales literature available.They want you to renew after a year or lose all the sales commissions( leading you to believe that you have to pay out another $399).What are they doing to educate you?Sent them e mail asking those questions.Been four days and no answer. Al Z:confused: ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/65 "2010-10-11T22:58:04Z")
> [@alfzampi](#): > > Read all I could about being sales [associate.Co](http://associate.Co). wants $399 to become associate > but they don’t really give you any info.The compensation plan,fund raising plan,any sales literature available.They want you to renew after a year or lose all the sales commissions( leading you to believe that you have to pay out another $399).What are they doing to educate you?Sent them e mail asking those questions.Been four days and no answer. > Al Z:confused: All the info is available in the presentation, live or recorded. It’s $59 to renew each year. They have training and seminars ALL the time! If you have any questions feel free to ask me. ---
**Author:** ![confusedinnj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@confusedinnj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/confusedinnj)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/66 "2010-10-15T20:37:32Z")
Well, I’ve read every entry on this blog post. Yes, I am a first time poster, and there is a likelihood that I won’t be back for more conversations, because I am a mom working three different jobs and spending time on blogs is real luxury. The reason I found this one is because I have been extensively searching for information on Viridian, and I’m truly grateful for the conversation here. I’m also a Viridian associate, however I fall into the category of people who aren’t very good at this, because I have not made back my money. I am not a salesperson by nature, just got involved because I would love to see green energy spread more quickly, and could use the extra income. I guess I’ve learned a lot about myself in this process, and I can say that all of the doubts about scams and MLMs that I’ve encountered in people I’ve spoken to have left me miles outside of my comfort zone. Sorry if this is starting to sound like a support group confession!! I’ve probably spent as much time researching mlms and looking for any incriminating evidence so that I can feel truly good about promoting Viridian as I have actually trying to sign up customers. I can say that I always come up empty handed as far as any claims of scams are concerned, these really do seem to be based on assumptions, though many people hold them. I would love to see Viridian provide more informative materials for associates and be a bit more proactive in addressing the mlm fears that abound. Anyway, I guess that’s all, I just wanted to let you all know that I appreciate the debate, and thanks to the moderator for leaving it up!!! ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/67 "2010-10-18T02:50:32Z")
Not sure if I’m allowed to link this website here but it’s a very large collection of experiences of people who have been involved with other MLM’s. Viridan is even mentioned somewhere near the end. [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3258090&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1](http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3258090&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1) My friends have recently jumped on the Viridian bandwagon and everything about it smells fishy. Particularly the lack of genuine information about it. The reason this thread has gotten popular and filled with new people is because if you google “Viridian Energy Scam” this is the first entry that comes up. My parents told me that they signed up for a company like this a few years ago in the Buffalo area and soon found out that while at first their bill is cheaper, it slowly begins to rise to higher than previous levels. For those of you that are unsure about Viridian, you should not be looking up information about them, but rather MLMs. There is lots of literature out there on why they do not work. I once read a link explaining that over 99% of MLM associates that filed taxes showed under $100 income for the year from that MLM. A large portion of people who claim to be making profit are actually lying to you in order to sign you up. Something about MLMs makes normal people suddenly start to become more liberal with their ethics to the point that I would be curious to read Psychology studies done on the topic. Is Viridian illegal? I don’t think so but I’m sure it walks the line. Nothing about it is different from a regular MLM company besides the fact that you don’t buy a product to sell it. However, you still need to pay a “fee”. Here is a quick little litmus test I created to test if the company is really more interested in selling their product rather than signing you up. Ask them if you can sell their product without paying them. What’s the difference ask them. You will still be giving them new clients. Why should I pay you to make you money? Why can’t we just skip that step all together? If they say no, then I trust your all smart enough to figure out why. ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/68 "2010-10-18T04:06:35Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Not sure if I’m allowed to link this website here but it’s a very large collection of experiences of people who have been involved with other MLM’s. Viridan is even mentioned somewhere near the end. [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3258090&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1](http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3258090&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1) > > My friends have recently jumped on the Viridian bandwagon and everything about it smells fishy. Particularly the lack of genuine information about it. The reason this thread has gotten popular and filled with new people is because if you google “Viridian Energy Scam” this is the first entry that comes up. > My parents told me that they signed up for a company like this a few years ago in the Buffalo area and soon found out that while at first their bill is cheaper, it slowly begins to rise to higher than previous levels. For those of you that are unsure about Viridian, you should not be looking up information about them, but rather MLMs. There is lots of literature out there on why they do not work. I once read a link explaining that over 99% of MLM associates that filed taxes showed under $100 income for the year from that MLM. > If their rate rose, why wouldn’t people switch back? There is no contract, no reson for a reasonable person to switch back. > MLM’s DO indeed work, IF they sell a legitimate product and NOT pay for bringing people in. I can guarantee you, I am a blue collar type guy, but industrious and ambitious, and I run a few small businesses. I also will have MUCH more than $100 on my 1099 at the end of this year. This is my first network marketing too. > A large portion of people who claim to be making profit are actually lying to you in order to sign you up. Something about MLMs makes normal people suddenly start to become more liberal with their ethics to the point that I would be curious to read Psychology studies done on the topic. I am not lying, there is no reason to as I don’t make a penny for signing anyone up, I only get paid on customers, that’s a fact. > > Is Viridian illegal? I don’t think so but I’m sure it walks the line. Nothing about it is different from a regular MLM company besides the fact that you don’t buy a product to sell it. However, you still need to pay a “fee”. > Of course it isn’t illegal, do you really think the PSC in every state we are licensed it would allow it??? > It indeed IS different from most MLMs for the reason i stated numerous times, you make NOTHING for signing people up. > > Here is a quick little litmus test I created to test if the company is really more interested in selling their product rather than signing you up. Ask them if you can sell their product without paying them. What’s the difference ask them. You will still be giving them new clients. Why should I pay you to make you money? Why can’t we just skip that step all together? If they say no, then I trust your all smart enough to figure out why. They charge a fee to join because they don’t want non motivated slackers involved. The $399 I paid to sign up I made back in my first month, and then some. The $399 is motivation and besides, a cheap cost to start up a business. I spent $50K on buying my wife’s consignment shop, and she makes a linear income off of it, and works hard at it. My Viridian business cost 400 lousy bucks, and I make residual money every month from it. Seriously, there is a TON of info out there for the reading, but MANY like you automatically assume it’s a scam, and that’s OK, I wouldn’t want someone like that in my organization 😉 I will keep defending Viridian against false and wrong information because so far, I am making money, and my customers are all saving money. If I saw that our rates would get jacked up above the utilities rate for an extended period, I would be the first to let them know, because most of them signed up based on my word and integrity. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/69 "2010-10-18T10:52:49Z")
> [@skargo](#): > > They charge a fee to join because they don’t want non motivated slackers involved. The $399 I paid to sign up I made back in my first month, and then some. The $399 is motivation and besides, a cheap cost to start up a business. I spent $50K on buying my wife’s consignment shop, and she makes a linear income off of it, and works hard at it. > My Viridian business cost 400 lousy bucks, and I make residual money every month from it. > > Seriously, there is a TON of info out there for the reading, but MANY like you automatically assume it’s a scam, and that’s OK, I wouldn’t want someone like that in my organization 😉 > > I will keep defending Viridian against false and wrong information because so far, I am making money, and my customers are all saving money. > If I saw that our rates would get jacked up above the utilities rate for an extended period, I would be the first to let them know, because most of them signed up based on my word and integrity. Motivation? Don’t make me laugh. I think in a few years you’ll take a step back and laugh at yourself too for being so naive. They make most of their money from signing up associates. If you have found success I applaud you, you are one of the few. If you have third party unbiased reading about Viridian out there I would be happy to see it, because I have had trouble finding it. ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/70 "2010-10-18T12:57:52Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Motivation? Don’t make me laugh. I think in a few years you’ll take a step back and laugh at yourself too for being so naive. They make most of their money from signing up associates. If you have found success I applaud you, you are one of the few. If you have third party unbiased reading about Viridian out there I would be happy to see it, because I have had trouble finding it. Naive? Look in the mirror. Don’t pick and choose my responses. Did you miss where they pay you the money back if you sign up 15 customers, which anyone can do. They do NOT make most of their money from signing up associates, show me that as a fact, or stop putting out YOUR naive opinion as fact. Everything I stated is factual, and I can back up. You have stated misinformed opinion as fact, which is bad because you are bashing a good business and good people. Funny how I am one of the few when I know personally some great people who have at least made their initial investment back and everything here on out is profit. In Viridian’s short history(almost 2 years) they have never been more than the public utility. You might want to brush up on your searching skills, there are plenty of unbiased articles on the net about Viridian. It’s funny how Maryland Public TV, Towson State University, Local FOPs, Knights of Columbus, Bowie Baysox Baseball, UConn, MANY churches and schools and other NPOs have signed up as associates and are making great money for their organizations. Yeah, BIGGGGGG Scam. In a few years I will laugh at you, and people like you who are saying I am lucky for getting in at the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/71 "2010-10-18T20:33:49Z")
> [@skargo](#): > > Naive? Look in the mirror. Don’t pick and choose my responses. Did you miss where they pay you the money back if you sign up 15 customers, which anyone can do. > > They do NOT make most of their money from signing up associates, show me that as a fact, or stop putting out YOUR naive opinion as fact. > Everything I stated is factual, and I can back up. You have stated misinformed opinion as fact, which is bad because you are bashing a good business and good people. > > Funny how I am one of the few when I know personally some great people who have at least made their initial investment back and everything here on out is profit. > > In Viridian’s short history(almost 2 years) they have never been more than the public utility. > > You might want to brush up on your searching skills, there are plenty of unbiased articles on the net about Viridian. > It’s funny how Maryland Public TV, Towson State University, Local FOPs, Knights of Columbus, Bowie Baysox Baseball, UConn, MANY churches and schools and other NPOs have signed up as associates and are making great money for their organizations. Yeah, BIGGGGGG Scam. > > In a few years I will laugh at you, and people like you who are saying I am lucky for getting in at the beginning. The more you preach, the more it sounds like a scam. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/72 "2010-10-18T21:36:12Z")
> [@skargo](#): > > Naive? Look in the mirror. Don’t pick and choose my responses. Did you miss where they pay you the money back if you sign up 15 customers, which anyone can do. > > They do NOT make most of their money from signing up associates, show me that as a fact, or stop putting out YOUR naive opinion as fact. > Everything I stated is factual, and I can back up. You have stated misinformed opinion as fact, which is bad because you are bashing a good business and good people. > > Funny how I am one of the few when I know personally some great people who have at least made their initial investment back and everything here on out is profit. > > In Viridian’s short history(almost 2 years) they have never been more than the public utility. > > You might want to brush up on your searching skills, there are plenty of unbiased articles on the net about Viridian. > It’s funny how Maryland Public TV, Towson State University, Local FOPs, Knights of Columbus, Bowie Baysox Baseball, UConn, MANY churches and schools and other NPOs have signed up as associates and are making great money for their organizations. Yeah, BIGGGGGG Scam. > > In a few years I will laugh at you, and people like you who are saying I am lucky for getting in at the beginning. Ok, where should I begin? They pay you back after 15 customers? How many people sign up 15 customers? And it doesn’t answer my question of why you have to pay to find them customers. Why do they care if your motivated or not? What’s the difference to them if you find them 1 customer or 100 customers? Your still making them money. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM TO MAKE THEM MONEY! That’s the nuclear red alert here. Why are they so against you finding less than 15 customers? If I do a great job and find them 14 customers they won’t give me my $300 back? Show me as fact that they do not make most of their money from associates. It goes both ways buddy. You claim to be sitting on this huge pot of facts yet all you tell me is hearsay. I asked to see third party unbiased articles about this company yet all you can provide me is what organizations have signed up as associates. Just because local organizations have signed up does not mean this is profitable for associates. The only employee they show on their website is the CEO who I know is in his 20s from people who have attended meetings. They claim to be “applying” for the DSA membership. That has been up on their website since August. My gut is that once Viridian runs out of new associates to sign up, they will simply pack up and leave and find a new state with fresh juice to squeeze. That’s how MLMs work. They’re only smart if your at the top of the pecking order. Earlier you said it’s just $400 lousy bucks. Don’t make that look like chump change. That’s a lot of money for college students and struggling families thinking they’re making a wise investment. 100 associates signed up for Viridian makes them $40,000. Tell me why they wouldn’t be interested in focusing exclusively on signing up associates? Easy money plus no worry of the overhead that comes with giving people green energy or whatever invisible mixture they offer people. By the way, here’s a little quote directly from the Viridian website: “You’ll get paid even more when you sponsor others to become Viridian Associates, and for the customers they sign up.” Here’s the link [http://viridian.com/Custom/CUST077/PersonalPages/PowerEarn.aspx](http://viridian.com/Custom/CUST077/PersonalPages/PowerEarn.aspx) I await your reply. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/73 "2010-10-18T21:39:43Z")
Also one last thing I can’t believe I forgot to mention. They only pay you back after you sign 15 people? Let’s say everyone manages to sign 15 people, how many people will be left to sign up for associates after everyone signs up their 15 people. There are finite people in every state. Eventually there will mathematically be no people left to sign up thus you can’t make your money back. Ever hear of those things that are all over Egypt? I think they’re called pyramids. Everyone can go home now, this puzzle has been solved. Viridian is bunk. I just hope your near the top of the pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/74 "2010-10-18T22:26:36Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Ok, where should I begin? They pay you back after 15 customers? How many people sign up 15 customers? And it doesn’t answer my question of why you have to pay to find them customers. Why do they care if your motivated or not? What’s the difference to them if you find them 1 customer or 100 customers? Your still making them money. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM TO MAKE THEM MONEY! That’s the nuclear red alert here. Why are they so against you finding less than 15 customers? If I do a great job and find them 14 customers they won’t give me my $300 back? > Every network marketing business costs money, no one is making you join LOL. > Show me as fact that they do not make most of their money from associates. It goes both ways buddy. You claim to be sitting on this huge pot of facts yet all you tell me is hearsay. I asked to see third party unbiased articles about this company yet all you can provide me is what organizations have signed up as associates. Just because local organizations have signed up does not mean this is profitable for associates. > YOU made the claim they make their money from the associates, the onus is on YOU buddy. And why would these organizations sign up, for the purpose of making money, just to throw their sign up fee away? Come on man. > > The only employee they show on their website is the CEO who I know is in his 20s from people who have attended meetings. They claim to be “applying” for the DSA membership. That has been up on their website since August. My gut is that once Viridian runs out of new associates to sign up, they will simply pack up and leave and find a new state with fresh juice to squeeze. That’s how MLMs work. They’re only smart if your at the top of the pecking order.Interesting, the CEO is in his 30’s, and is a brilliant guy. > They in fact have received their DSA membership in September. More wrong statements from you, do you EVER check your “facts” > > Earlier you said it’s just $400 lousy bucks. Don’t make that look like chump change. That’s a lot of money for college students and struggling families thinking they’re making a wise investment. 100 associates signed up for Viridian makes them $40,000. Tell me why they wouldn’t be interested in focusing exclusively on signing up associates? Easy money plus no worry of the overhead that comes with giving people green energy or whatever invisible mixture they offer people. > $400 is chump change when you consider you are buying a business. No one is making a college student or struggling family sign up. Not sure where you are going with that line of thinking. I wouldn’t present this to anyone who was having money issues. In fact, I was very skeptical when I signed up, and considered my $400 “losable” but I didn’t lose it, i got it back a few times over already, and we’ve only been live in MD since July 15th. > Invisible mixture?!?!?! isn’t all electricity invisible? You do know, since you act like an expert, that any alternative energy supplier gets audited yearly and they have to prove what percentage of their energy is green? > They also make a profit on selling the energy, just like any other business. > > By the way, here’s a little quote directly from the Viridian website: “You’ll get paid even more when you sponsor others to become Viridian Associates, and for the customers they sign up.” Here’s the link [http://viridian.com/Custom/CUST077/PersonalPages/PowerEarn.aspx](http://viridian.com/Custom/CUST077/PersonalPages/PowerEarn.aspx) I await your reply. Once again, since you do not seem to get it, you, as an associate make NOTHING by bringing in associates, not until they bring in customers. How is this a bad thing, all of my customers SAVE money. All of my customers help green the grid. Who cares how the associates get paid, no one is forcing, or even pressuring ANYONE to become an associate, so why do some, like yourself, make it out to be such a huge deal. If YOU and other misinformed people think it’s a scam, by all means snug down your tin foil hat and do not sign up LOL, no one is putting a gun to your head. As for being a customer, it costs NOTHING to sign up, no contracts like other companies, so wouldn’t it be financial suicide for Viridian to slowly jack up the rates like you alluded to earlier? Since there is no penalty to switch back, people would do it in droves if Viridian did that. ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/75 "2010-10-18T22:29:20Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > Also one last thing I can’t believe I forgot to mention. They only pay you back after you sign 15 people? Let’s say everyone manages to sign 15 people, how many people will be left to sign up for associates after everyone signs up their 15 people. There are finite people in every state. Eventually there will mathematically be no people left to sign up thus you can’t make your money back. Ever hear of those things that are all over Egypt? I think they’re called pyramids. Everyone can go home now, this puzzle has been solved. Viridian is bunk. I just hope your near the top of the pyramid. Pyramid schemes are illegal, the DMA will not accept anyone who even comes close to offering a pyramid scheme. You do know there are millions upon millions of electrical meters out there, right? Why don’t you stop lying and saying Viridian is bunk. You have solved NOTHING. All you have done is post up lies and wrong statements. Smoke much? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/76 "2010-10-18T22:30:42Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > The more you preach, the more it sounds like a scam. I am not preaching, I was trying to address, that guy’s concerns. If you think it’s a scam by all means run far away. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/77 "2010-10-18T22:35:41Z")
One last thing, have I tried, even once to recruit an associate, or even a customer here? NO! All I have done is ask questions, and watch some who have no idea bash and tell lies about a good company. Maybe they will decide to hose us all one day, and I will be mister gullible, but until then I will take my monthly deposits, and continue to over CHEAPER, green energy to my customers. I have believed that MLM is bad my whole life, and even checked out a few meetings, it wasn’t until i was introduced to Viridian that a lightbulb went off. Is it a get rich quick scheme? Absolutely not, it takes HARD work, and lazy people who sign up WILL lose their sign up fee. Can you make residual income from it. Absolutely, I am doing it right now. I am a firm believer in multiple streams of income, that is why I invest in real estate, own a tenant placement business, own a consignment shop, am doing the Viridian thing and even will do eviction cleanouts, and haul crap in my truck because despite being laid off in 2008, and despite the bad economy so many whine about, I am not about to feel sorry for myself, I’m getting mine@ ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/78 "2010-10-18T23:02:21Z")
> [@skargo](#): > > Once again, since you do not seem to get it, you, as an associate make NOTHING by bringing in associates, not until they bring in customers. > > How is this a bad thing, all of my customers SAVE money. All of my customers help green the grid. > Who cares how the associates get paid, no one is forcing, or even pressuring ANYONE to become an associate, so why do some, like yourself, make it out to be such a huge deal. > If YOU and other misinformed people think it’s a scam, by all means snug down your tin foil hat and do not sign up LOL, no one is putting a gun to your head. > > As for being a customer, it costs NOTHING to sign up, no contracts like other companies, so wouldn’t it be financial suicide for Viridian to slowly jack up the rates like you alluded to earlier? Since there is no penalty to switch back, people would do it in droves if Viridian did that. I want you to understand that I don’t care if I convince you that this is a pyramid (I never used the word scam), I’m here to bring a differing opinion to those who stumble on here after googling “Viridian Energy Scam” rather than your cheerleading. I’ve paid close attention to everything you wrote and as a frequent visitor to Great Debates since 2003, I know many of the users will agree with me that your main argument points consist of the following things. 1. I am not aware of the FACTS and I should become more informed of these FACTS. 2. You know all your FACTS, however when asked to give cites or sources you never do. Rather you disagree with me and tell me smugly how misinformed I am. 3. You only argue on the points you want to argue. The reason this is not illegal is because it is an MLM and MLMs are not illegal. They hide behind the guise of selling another product all the while profiting from an associate pyramid on the side. Earlier you very plainly stated that you do not make money from signing up associates. You left no wiggle room. You clearly stated that you can not make money from it. Now after I linked directly to the Viridian website clearly stating that you can make money from it, your stance changes. Now you say you only makes money if your associate signs other associates? So that clearly means you can make money off signing other associates. That’s less profitable than a regular pyramid scheme. Just because YOU don’t do it, doesn’t mean that’s not the main goal of others. You must understand that many of these associates ARE college students and struggling families. Not everyone is as well off as you are and can afford to lose this money. 15 associates is a lot of associates. Even if your motivated, it takes a lot of time and effort to sign that many people. Many things can go wrong so that even hard working good people can’t find 15 people to sign. You continue to conveniently bursh off my two major points. The first is why they would care if you were motivated. Your answer is that every network marketing company charges you. However that does not explain why it makes it OK. “LOL” is right. The second is the mathematical problem I presented you. There can be billions of electric meters, you will still eventually run out of people to sell to. Do me a favor and multiple 15 by itself and tell me how many times you did it before you covered the population of your state. That’s how many levels that are possible. This isn’t new stuff. You seem to hide behind attacking me as a “liar”, using “LOL” to belittle me, and constantly saying “YOU don’t have facts” all the while never even supplying 1 measly link or cite or tangible source. Listen, you invested your money. Your behind this all the way. It’s called cognitive dissonance. I could bring the Viridian CEO on here to confirm everything I said and you still wouldn’t believe me. Your looking at this through rose colored glasses and ignoring many of the points I’ve brought up. I’m not here to win you over so I will not continue to argue with you. Since this thread shows up first in Google when searching “Viridian Energy Scam” I know concerned people will read this thread and form their own opinions. I have presented everything I can as concisely as I can and I hope I will help some people save money that they can’t afford to lose it. I wish you the best with your investment and your sales and if I’m wrong I don’t lose anything either so I have no reason not to root for you. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![skargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@skargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skargo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/79 "2010-10-18T23:21:33Z")
Look, no problem. I am NOT trying to be a cheerleader, just thought I was addressing points. One thing you might be confused about is the difference between customers and associates. Associates, like me, pay to be involved. Customers never pay anything. To get your money back, you need to sign up 15 CUSTOMERS, not associates 😉 I NEVER said you make money when your associates sign up other associates, only when they sign up CUSTOMERS, so no, my stance has NEVER changed in this thread, despite what you get out of this. I am a straight up honest person, and anyone who insinuates otherwise can go crap in their hat. There is one kid who has no associates, but has signed up over 1000 customers on the internet. So he is making over a grand a month because of it. There are also people with 100 associates, AND no personal customers, and they make money off of all the various levels and bonuses. Where do you live? Maybe you should come as my guest to a meeting. I promise I won’t let anyone try and brainwash or hypnotize you, and I will make sure you can stand up and ask your questions. If that’s too intimidating, why don’t you post all of your questions and concerns to [askv@viridian.com](mailto:askv@viridian.com) and post up the responses here. Seriously, sign up if you want, and don’t if you don’t like it. But don’t question their legitimacy without facts or with wrong statements. That’s not fair. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/80 "2010-10-18T23:27:45Z")
No, I understand. I just mixed up a few words. No matter how you look at it you can still make money by signing up other associates. And thanks but no thanks to the meeting. I’ve been to them before. “I made $100,000 and quit my job after 2 months”. They’re all the same. I had enough pep rallies in high school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664.md?page=5)