# Are green energy companies like Viridian and Glacial really a MLM scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664 "2010-07-14T15:21:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/121 "2010-11-02T00:38:39Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’m plenty un-narrowminded. However, if I do say so myself, I have not been the victim of a scam. That is partially because my BS-meter pings whenever anyone starts being defensive and talking in vague generalities rather than making with the firm data when it’s requested. So far, that’s all I’m seeing here. > > And since most MLMs aren’t legitimate business opportunities anyway, it passes the quack test. Thanks for the back-up, I’ve been fighting this battle myself for a while now. “Stopthebs” just posted perhaps the most obvious ad hominem attack I’ve seen at The Straight Dope in a while and I’ve been here a while. They don’t provide outside cites and get extremely defensive about anything slightly negative said about the company. Like I said this is all textbook-MLM behavior. Emotional responses to factual questions. The reason they can’t provide us unbiased articles is because there are none. The media hasn’t gotten to Viridian yet, the only stuff out there is from associates trying to make money. “Stopthebs” insults me for a paragraph then asks “Ludovic” to not insult him. By the way, to “stopthebs” who defends the DSA so much, read the quick criticisms here in [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Selling_Association#Criticisms) Wikipedia article. One more thing, some advice for you. If your trying to convince anybody that Viridian is a different kind of company, don’t bring up Avon and call them a successful business venture, it might make your argument look bad. Just ask the people who try to sell their products. ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/122 "2010-11-02T00:53:24Z")
> [@Binroundawhile](#): > > (accidentally submitted last post before finishing) > > Just because someone does not succeed at an MLM endeavor does not mean the marketing model is no good. > > There are many reputable companies, with great products, using the model. > > A few that come to mind are: Avon, Mary Kay, Arbonne, Melaleuca… good products, and some great people… > > It’s pay for performance, plain and simple… some people don’t perform. Some do. Those that do, get paid well.. Those that don’t, don’t get paid well. > > well, there is a lot to be said about it, but time for dinner! 🙂 Just wanted to finish that ‘hanging sentence’ from the last post. If you want to talk about theories like your previous post then yes this is theoretically true. However in practice there are problems here. The biggest is that the products are highly overpriced. This makes it very difficult to sell the products when they can be acquired much cheaper elsewhere (you may have heard of the highly overpriced Vector knives MLM). The salespeople are forced to make large minimum purchases and end up swallowing the extra inventory that they can’t sell. How do they convince people to buy an overpriced product and attempt to sell it at an even higher price? The same way Viridian convinces associates that 15 people is nothing. By bringing in “successful associates” cough:employees:cough to brag about how much money they have made in such a short time. Please don’t start parading well known MLMs as big moneymakers for salespeople. The reason Viridian has it’s own thread is because it claims it is different since you don’t buy any tangible items (just an easy, cheap, no problem, motivational $400). ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/123 "2010-11-02T01:05:06Z")
> [@Binroundawhile](#): > > This is a bogus argument. A mathematical theory expressed does not make the marketing model bunk. So, give this some thought: The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than it is in theory. > > You see, the theory you express never happens. Picture this: if a baseball game is played and the first team up never gets an out, the game will NEVER end. In theory; true. In practice; it has NEVER happened. > > Your reason for claiming an MLM model is bunk, is bunk. 🙂 It never applies itself in an MLM situation. An MLMer never finds themselves in a situation where they must say, “gee, I can’t find anyone who has not joined this business. It is now mathematically impossible for me to make money in this MLM.” The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than it is in theory. > > Just because people do not succeed at an MLM endeavor I was just going with the thought process your buddy Skargo was using. He claims that signing 15 customers was easier than waking up in the morning. Since you don’t get your initial $400 investment back until you signed 15 people I just obviously assumed that everybody would have no problem signing 15 customers. If that were the case the world population would be using Viridian by the 6th level. Are you trying to tell me that not everyone signs 15 customers? Are you trying to tell me that not everyone gets they’re $400 back? By the way, everybody seems to ignore my easy question. Why should I pay Viridian to make them money? Why can’t I just give them customers for free and receive some compensation. Why should I pay $400 for the honor of upgrading the Viridian CEO’s Mercedes class. And please, please, please, don’t say it’s for motivation. It’s like telling a girl you love her 15 minutes after meeting her to get her in the sack. You didn’t actually fall for that? Did you? ---
**Author:** ![stopthebs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@stopthebs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stopthebs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/124 "2010-11-02T01:15:35Z")
For your reading pleasures: [http://www.northjersey.com/news/100005759\_Energy\_company\_wants\_to\_save\_town\_money.html](http://www.northjersey.com/news/100005759_Energy_company_wants_to_save_town_money.html) > **[Energy efficiency](https://www.newjerseyhills.com/the_progress/opinion/editorial/article_b6283ca6-d799-11df-b840-001cc4c002e0.html)** > > The Roseland Board of Education received a visit from a representative of Viridian Energy at a recent meeting who outlined a way for the school board to boost revenue through [http://www.gazette.net/stories/07152010/laurnew154620\_32534.php](http://www.gazette.net/stories/07152010/laurnew154620_32534.php) [http://www.northjersey.com/news/100506754\_Your\_neighbors\_are\_selling\_Green\_energy.html](http://www.northjersey.com/news/100506754_Your_neighbors_are_selling_Green_energy.html) ---
**Author:** ![eman77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@eman77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eman77)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/125 "2010-11-02T01:54:30Z")
> [@stopthebs](#): > > For your reading pleasures: > > [http://www.northjersey.com/news/100005759\_Energy\_company\_wants\_to\_save\_town\_money.html](http://www.northjersey.com/news/100005759_Energy_company_wants_to_save_town_money.html) > > [http://newjerseyhills.com/the\_progress/opinion/editorial/article\_b6283ca6-d799-11df-b840-001cc4c002e0.html](http://newjerseyhills.com/the_progress/opinion/editorial/article_b6283ca6-d799-11df-b840-001cc4c002e0.html) > > [http://www.gazette.net/stories/07152010/laurnew154620\_32534.php](http://www.gazette.net/stories/07152010/laurnew154620_32534.php) > > [http://www.northjersey.com/news/100506754\_Your\_neighbors\_are\_selling\_Green\_energy.html](http://www.northjersey.com/news/100506754_Your_neighbors_are_selling_Green_energy.html) There we go, see now we can have a grown-up debate. Btw, for those that don’t want to go through all the articles, read the last one it’s the best. Well now we know that Viridian actually provides the service they claim to. I’m glad that’s put to bed. The article also confirms that it is unfortunately, a typical MLM. You want to become an associate? Fine go ahead, just be ready to compete with all the people in those comments fighting over the same people you are. At the end of the day MLMs are frowned upon because inevitably you run out of humans to sell to. If everyone needs to sign 15 customers to get their money back then that just means many people will not get their money back and Viridian just keeps their money. Why? I guess because they were bad salespeople. The later you sign on as an associate the harder it will be for you to find those 15 people. And can somebody pretty please answer my simple question. Why should I pay money to give them customers? Why can’t I do it for free? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/126 "2010-11-02T02:18:29Z")
> [@eman77](#): > > The later you sign on as an associate the harder it will be for you to find those 15 people. And can somebody pretty please answer my simple question. Why should I pay money to give them customers? Why can’t I do it for free? I hear that Amway started off with some decent product. I know my mom bought lots of product from a different beauty-supply MLM (not avon or amway) because she liked the product: however, it may have ruined her friendship with the friend from whom she bought it because her friend didn’t want her to buy the product, she wanted her to become an associate. So there are instances of MLMs that sell good product but are still basically scams on the associate side. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664/127 "2010-11-02T03:38:50Z")
> [@stopthebs](#): > > BTW.. thank you to all Viridian Associates who have displayed such professionalism and in sharing the company’s information. So, are you admitting that this thread has been little more than a shilling thread for the company? There has been rather far more advertiusing (on one side) and personal attacks (on both sides) than we generally tolerate in GD. I’m calling it off. [/Modding] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-green-energy-companies-like-viridian-and-glacial-really-a-mlm-scam/546664.md?page=6)