# Are Han Solo/Indiana Jones "misogynist" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618 "2015-07-08T22:35:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/21 "2015-07-09T14:25:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That would probably be the line getting people’s panties in a twist. I’d hoped there’d be a previous line where Leia explicitly referred to herself as female or her idea as female intuition, but no such luck. It does seem out of nowhere to think the problem is because she’s female and not because she’s royalty with no experience. The rest of his lines work for the royal-pain-in-the-ass interpretation, but this one doesn’t. I think we can cut him some slack. The man agreed to take a couple of guys to Alderaan, and ended up breaking a princess out of an Imperial detention block. This is _not_ what he signed up for. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/22 "2015-07-09T15:01:42Z")
Yeah. We desperately need a reboot with a sensitive, male-feminist Han Solo, always at the ready with a sympathetic ear and a soft shoulder for Leia to cry on. “You’re such a good friend,” she’ll weep, “I wish I could meet a nice guy like you!” Then she goes right back to Lando. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/23 "2015-07-09T16:23:15Z")
Indiana is a nicer guy than Han, and both can be pushy or rude at times, but I don’t think either is a misogynist. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > By all rights, Marion Ravenswood should have punched Indiana Jones’s lights out when she met him again in _Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull_ instead of falling in love with him again. He had abandoned her twice, the second time leaving her pregnant. He’s a jerk. He didn’t know she was pregnant, did he? And even if he did, I mean, come on! It was with _Shia!_ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/24 "2015-07-09T18:21:29Z")
Han Solo’s interactions with Leia wasn’t misogyny, for crying out loud, it was just banter. The snooty aristocrat versus the shady outlaw, like you’ve seen in countless movies. He wasn’t disparaging women in general, he was disparaging the stuck up princess. That said, your opinion of Han Solo might change a little bit when you realize his real world equivalent is a cross border trucker who won his rig in a shady poker game, frequently works for drug cartels, and killed a guy in a bar. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/25 "2015-07-09T18:27:55Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Han Solo’s interactions with Leia wasn’t misogyny, for crying out loud, it was just banter. The snooty aristocrat versus the shady outlaw, like you’ve seen in countless movies. He wasn’t disparaging women in general, he was disparaging the stuck up princess. > > That said, your opinion of Han Solo might change a little bit when you realize his real world equivalent is a cross border trucker who won his rig in a shady poker game, frequently works for drug cartels, and **killed a guy in a bar.** It was self-defense! Watch the [security footage!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpXD2tvV-9Q#t=50s) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/26 "2015-07-09T18:28:25Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > That said, your opinion of Han Solo might change a little bit when you realize his real world equivalent is a cross border trucker who won his rig in a shady poker game, frequently works for drug cartels, and killed a guy in a bar. Add the prefix “A cashiered former Army officer” to your description and we have an accurate description. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/27 "2015-07-09T18:32:16Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I think they’re both supposed to be taken as a little misogynist. They’re mans men in macho professions (smuggling and archaeology\*), not particularly used to dealing with woman outside of romantic encounters. Than they’re confronted with strong competent woman and act overly aggressive until the woman prove themselves, at which point they fall in love (or find out they’re really Nazis and watch them fall into a giant chasm). > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But that becomes problematic for any new films because they’re going to need to revise the character in accordance with modern day sensibilities and that fundamentally changes Han Solo into an entirely different character. He wasn’t a well-rounded, complex man. He was a copy-paste of a known, concrete archetype from noir and two-bit serials put into a space ship. Well, on the other hand, as said, his macho-ness has been countered by the strong competent woman who has proven herself. So, naturally, 30 years later, you would imagine he would have changed. He’s not going to regress back into the same person he was before he met the strong competent woman, or at least it’d be disappointing if he did so. Especially if he’s had kids - then he just becomes some overly macho acting dad and that’s just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/28 "2015-07-09T18:59:22Z")
Lets move the goalposts down from misogyny to sexism. There’s a little bit of it in Han. I think it’s more something convenient to target when pushing back against taking orders from anybody. He recognizes Leia as fully competent quickly enough. The scene in _Jedi_ at the bunker shows he trusts her completely, including her aim. He doesn’t treat her very nicely for much of _Empire_, but that’s not because he hates women, but because he has feelings for her he’s hiding. Indy is certainly a womanizer. He’ll love 'em and leave 'em, but I don’t recall any other instances of woeful mistreatment. He’s condescending to Willie because, well, she deserves it. At his worst is when he’s too eager to woo Elsa instead of treating her as a colleague. One more thing about _Temple of Doom_, they don’t go into the underground temple until almost exactly halfway through the movie. Until that point, the film plays exactly as an oil-and-water romantic comedy between Indy and Willie. Once I realized that, I enjoyed it a lot more. It’s not an homage to old adventure serials like the others, it’s an homage to things like _African Queen_ and its predecessors. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/29 "2015-07-09T19:05:25Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Lets move the goalposts down from misogyny to sexism. > > There’s a little bit of it in Han. I think it’s more something convenient to target when pushing back against taking orders from anybody. Again, though, at the briefing led by Mon Mothma, he’s pretty much on board: he makes the occasional snide remark, but not about the woman _or_ the man telling it like it is up there; he’s in the service, they’re laying out what’s to be done, he’s good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/30 "2015-07-09T19:26:03Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > It was self-defense! Watch the [security footage!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpXD2tvV-9Q#t=50s) Hmmm. That security footage seems doctored to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/31 "2015-07-09T19:26:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > _Crystal Skull_ is not Indiana Jones. Its fanfiction. I will not accept otherwise. I like this theory, and accept it as canon. Off-topic, but the skeeviest line in the series: “Dad, how could you?” “What? I’m as human as the next guy!” “Yeah, but I WAS the next guy!” ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/32 "2015-07-09T19:28:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I agree with this. I didn’t mean the statement as a complaint nor a slam on these Harrison Ford characters in the other thread. Just, as said, it’s a character which no longer exists in cinema. Han Solo and Indiana Jones were probably the last hurrah for the type. > > But that becomes problematic for any new films because they’re going to need to revise the character in accordance with modern day sensibilities and that fundamentally changes Han Solo into an entirely different character. Like, the kind of guy who wouldn’t shoot first? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/33 "2015-07-09T19:48:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That would probably be the line getting people’s panties in a twist. I’d hoped there’d be a previous line where Leia explicitly referred to herself as female or her idea as female intuition, but no such luck. It does seem out of nowhere to think the problem is because she’s female and not because she’s royalty with no experience. The rest of his lines work for the royal-pain-in-the-ass interpretation, but this one doesn’t. I don’t think this shows a misogynistic character in Solo…I just think he’s trying to get under Leia’s skin and be abrasive. If it were Kenobi in Leia’s seat, Solo would have just changed his comment from “woman” to “geezer”. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/34 "2015-07-09T20:46:49Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > . . . One more thing about _Temple of Doom_, they don’t go into the underground temple until almost exactly halfway through the movie. Until that point, the film plays exactly as an oil-and-water romantic comedy between Indy and Willie. Once I realized that, I enjoyed it a lot more. It’s not an homage to old adventure serials like the others, it’s an homage to things like _African Queen_ and its predecessors. Super point! Thank you! I hadn’t thought of it like that;that’s a good insight. One more (minor) defense of the movie: the death-trap – where the big domed ceiling is slowly descending – is the scariest in the whole damn series of films. That’s a death-trap that will kill ya. (As opposed to the “Breath of God” in TLC, which only kills you if you’re stupid enough to walk into it, or the “Word of God,” which only kills you if you’re too stupid to probe ahead of you with a stick. And as for the “Path of God,” why not just go back, go around, and lower yourself with a rope? And he was a Boy Scout! Those were the stupidest, wimpiest, most pallid, lame-ass death traps in the history of adventure movies!) ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/35 "2015-07-09T20:51:10Z")
I think he was a misogynist, in a fun kinda throwback way, if that’s possible. Like in a “battle of the sexes” kinda way. Like the scene in Doom with the sexist/sexual game they were playing in the hall at bedtime. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/36 "2015-07-09T22:16:51Z")
Han and Indy are not misogynist. The case is stronger that the leading women in those movies were man haters. Marion was a jilted lover that was determined to make him pay through the nose for the ancient thingamajigy. But otherwise not so bad. Leia was worse. She was busting balls and hurling insults from the start. She rags on his ship, isn’t at all grateful for the rescue and if your way of saying hello is “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” don’t expect to get first class accommodations. She wasn’t exactly diplomatic. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/37 "2015-07-09T23:41:25Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah. We desperately need a reboot with a sensitive, male-feminist Han Solo, always at the ready with a sympathetic ear and a soft shoulder for Leia to cry on. > > “You’re such a good friend,” she’ll weep, “I wish I could meet a nice guy like you!” Then she goes right back to Lando. Too real. Especially for the core audience. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/38 "2015-07-10T00:07:39Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > Leia was worse. She was busting balls and hurling insults from the start. She rags on his ship, isn’t at all grateful for the rescue and if your way of saying hello is “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” don’t expect to get first class accommodations. She wasn’t exactly diplomatic. Well, now, insulting a slimy Space Nazi to his face when you’ve been taken prisoner in his sinister [del]castle[/del] “battle station” (the “foul stench” line) is one thing–that’s heroically defiant and plucky and all. I admit, she was pretty tart with Luke and Han. On the other hand, their plan _was_ kind of half-baked. I mean, getting _in_ to the detention block is usually not really the hard part. On the gripping hand, if Han is kind of misogynist, Leia is kind of racist (or speciesist). Referring to a Wookiee as a “big walking carpet” is pretty shocking language coming from an Imperial Senator and a key leader of the Rebel Alliance. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/39 "2015-07-10T00:14:28Z")
Well, I wouldnt exactly call them feminists ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618/40 "2015-07-10T00:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > On the gripping hand, if Han is kind of misogynist, Leia is kind of racist (or speciesist). Referring to a Wookiee as a “big walking carpet” is pretty shocking language coming from an Imperial Senator and a key leader of the Rebel Alliance. She didn’t even give him a medal! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-han-solo-indiana-jones-misogynist/724618.md?page=3)