# Are 'heathen' and 'pagan' synonymous? If not, what's the difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520 "2020-02-25T22:21:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/1 "2020-02-25T22:21:47Z")
Both ‘heathen’ and ‘pagan’ ususally translate to the single word ‘Heide’ in my native German. Now ‘Heide’ generally means “a non-Christian person”, be it someone of another faith or an atheist (not that we use the word very often any longer, it’s becoming more and ancient sounding the more of our population _are_ heathens.) I suspect that ‘heathen’ and ‘Heide’ are etymologically related, but don’t know if they exactly cover the same connotations. As with ‘pagan’, I know that there are modern religious communities which call themselves ‘pagan’ or ‘neo-pagan’, so that word in English probably has a somewhat different meaning than ‘heathen’. In fewer words, I’m confused. Can you help me? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/2 "2020-02-25T22:34:22Z")
Let me see if I can help you out, with the caveat that this is based on _current American usage_ and may differ a bit in other English dialects. Heathen: non-Christian of any sort (so would encompass Pagans, Hindus, Atheists, etc.) Pagan: polytheist, believer in multiple deities. Within the sub-set of heathens known as Neo-Pagans, a “Heathen” might refer to a pagan following a Norse/Germanic tradition or reconstruction or whatever, which are also sometimes called “Asatru” Some of the more fundamentalist Christian Protestants may also have slightly differing definitions for heathen and pagan, but I don’t hang out with those sorts so I’m not 100% sure of that. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/3 "2020-02-25T22:34:31Z")
“Heathen” and “pagan” both come from different languages but a similar background: “paganus” in Latin means “rustic, country hick” (from “pagus”, countryside district). “Heathen” is Germanic for the same idea (cognate with “heath”). The idea of these words meaning “non-Christian” came from the historical fact that the rise of Christianity in Europe was largely an urban effect: Christianity sought to convert the elites, not the peasants, because once the baron or king converted, the rubes in the woods would inevitably convert (if they knew what’s good for them, even if they had to be reminded at sword-point). If non-Christian beliefs and practices could hold out, they could really only do so in the backwoods, which is where the verbal connection comes from. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/4 "2020-02-25T22:36:59Z")
“[Heathen](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/heathen)” apparently traditionally meant someone who didn’t believe in the “God of the Bible” (that is, someone who isn’t Jewish, Christian, or Muslim). “[Pagan](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pagan)” appears to, in at least some contexts, specifically refer to someone who believes in/worships a polytheistic religion, or worships nature. Broadly, while a pagan might also be considered (by a Christian, Muslim, or Jew) to also be a heathen, not all heathens are necessarily pagans (for example, atheists). Also, I might suspect that some conservative Christians may see Jews and Muslims as “heathens” – I’ve read writings by Christians who explicitly deny that Jews and Muslims worship the same God that they do, since Jews and Muslims don’t acknowledge the Holy Trinity. However, note that both of those definitions on [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) also refer to the other word, and I would suspect that, in casual use, the words are probably seen by many non-scholars as more-or-less interchangeable. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/5 "2020-02-25T22:39:40Z")
Colloquially heathen almost always means something more akin to uncivilized, but also indicates an indulgent attitude toward said ‘heathen’. Otherwise, yeah, “a non-Christian person”. Pagan, I would immediately assume means a follower or participant of Wicca/witchcraft. Pagan may also have more of a flavor of the taboo about it, perhaps as a heritage from the perception of witches as licentious and malevolent while heathen rather suggests foreignness. I would not refer to anyone as a heathen or a pagan seriously unless they had already indicated that I should as otherwise both words suggest an element of derision. That’s just my gut reaction to the words. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/6 "2020-02-25T23:00:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Heathen: non-Christian of any sort (so would encompass Pagans, Hindus, Atheists, etc.) > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Otherwise, yeah, “a non-Christian person”. Would you refer to a Jewish person as a heathen?:dubious: **kenobi 65** has it right. “Heathen” refers to those “not of the book,” and does not include Jews or Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/7 "2020-02-25T23:04:51Z")
An interesting article here, from 1977, which describes how the concept of ‘paganism’ has been interpreted in the context of the early Roman Christian period. [http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/paganus.html](http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/paganus.html) > [@](#): > > The ‘traditional’ view of paganus is that its obvious derivation from pagus and its original sense in classical Latin (= ‘rustic, hick’) governed its adoption by Christian writers. In spite of counter-arguments supported by Harnack, this is the view taken by the most comprehensive survey of the question, that of J. Zeiller.[2] This view interprets the evidence as showing that ‘paganism’ survived most tenaciously in the country districts, thus the attachment of the old word for country-dweller. > > The ‘modern’ view observes that paganus had taken on a special sense in the early empire, coming to mean ‘civil, civilian’ as opposd to ‘military’.[3] The most recent and circumspect defense of that view was made by B. Altaner.[4] This argument holds that the new spcial sense of paganus was much the most common in the Roman Empire and that its Christian adoption looks to the paganus as someone who is not a miles Christi. > > A third view attempts to mediate between the two so far summarized; it received its classical formulation by C. Mohrmann.[5] By minute analysis of texts, this view notes that the use of paganus to mean ‘civilian’ was a special case of a more general use to mean ‘outsider’ – whether the general or the special sense came first is not clear.[6] In that view, paganus comes to mean ‘pagan’ simply as a non-tendentious term for someone who is outside the Christian community; the pejorative connotations of the earlier interpretations are missing. Hick, civilian, outsider. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/8 "2020-02-25T23:12:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Would you refer to a Jewish person as a heathen?:dubious: > > **kenobi 65** has it right. “Heathen” refers to those “not of the book,” and does not include Jews or Muslims. That’s interesting because I thought once more of the use of the German word ‘Heide’. I don’t remember having seen/heard any usage of it for Jews, but many times for Muslims, especially in the context of the crusades. In that context, the usage was most probably a translation of the word the medieval Church used for the Muslims, in Church latin. Would that word have been ‘paganus’? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/9 "2020-02-25T23:37:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Would you refer to a Jewish person as a heathen?:dubious: Me, personally? No - because not being Christian I don’t use the word in that manner and don’t divide the world into Christian/non-Christian I have, however, seen some Christian sects refer to anyone not their sort of Christian, including others “of the Book”, as heathens. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/10 "2020-02-25T23:51:43Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I don’t remember having seen/heard any usage of it for Jews, but many times for Muslims, especially in the context of the crusades. In that context, the usage was most probably a translation of the word the medieval Church used for the Muslims, in Church latin. Would that word have been ‘paganus’? During the Crusades, Muslims were frequently referred to as [_infidels_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel), those who actively rejected and opposed Christianity. Muslims were regarded more as schismatics or heretics since they recognized Christ as a prophet but not the Savior. They were monotheists, and so would not be lumped with pagans, who were specifically polytheists. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/11 "2020-02-25T23:54:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I have, however, seen some Christian sects refer to anyone not their sort of Christian, including others “of the Book”, as heathens. In some cases, that would even include Roman Catholics and others. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/12 "2020-02-26T00:14:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > During the Crusades, Muslims were frequently referred to as [_infidels_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel), those who actively rejected and opposed Christianity. Muslims were regarded more as schismatics or heretics since they recognized Christ as a prophet but not the Savior. They were monotheists, and so would not be lumped with pagans, who were specifically polytheists. Now you come in and make things even more complicated by bringing up a third word I hadn’t thought about :D. I suspect that the Arabic equivalent to ‘infidel’ is the word Islamic extremists call Christians, because that’s always translated as ‘Ungläubiger’ in Germany, which OTOH is the literal translation of ‘infidel’. (Infidels is also a great Dylan album…) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/13 "2020-02-26T00:27:17Z")
I am surprised by the OP because I have a good friend named Heide. Not Heidi. She is from Vienna and I always assumed that that was the Austrian version of Heidi. That name is generally thought of as the German version of Heather. Could you comment? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/14 "2020-02-26T00:32:18Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I suspect that the Arabic equivalent to ‘infidel’ is the word Islamic extremists call Christians, because that’s always translated as ‘Ungläubiger’ in Germany, which OTOH is the literal translation of ‘infidel’. One Arabic equivalent to infidel is [_kafir_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir), although I don’t know about its contemporary use with regards to Christians. (Although it is the historical basis of the term, this is not to be confused with _Kaffir_, a derogatory term for blacks in South Africa.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/15 "2020-02-26T00:36:34Z")
I would have thought that “heathen” means, not just a non-Christian, but anyone who is not a member of whatever the speaker’s religion is. Thus, a Christian could refer to a Jew or a Muslim as a heathen, but a Jew or a Muslim could likewise refer to a Christian as a heathen. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/16 "2020-02-26T00:42:01Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I am surprised by the OP because I have a good friend named Heide. Not Heidi. She is from Vienna and I always assumed that that was the Austrian version of Heidi. That name is generally thought of as the German version of Heather. Could you comment? Heide=heathen and Heide=heather are homonyms. But as \*\*gnoitall \*\*wrote above, Heide/Heide and heathen/heather are etymologically related. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/17 "2020-02-26T02:21:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would have thought that “heathen” means, not just a non-Christian, but anyone who is not a member of whatever the speaker’s religion is. Thus, a Christian could refer to a Jew or a Muslim as a heathen, but a Jew or a Muslim could likewise refer to a Christian as a heathen. The Jewish terms for any non-Jew are _gentile_ or _goy_. I am not aware that a distinction is made for other “people of the book.” ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/18 "2020-02-26T03:05:19Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > : …“paganus” in Latin means “rustic, country hick” (from “pagus”, countryside district). " > [@eburacum45](#): > > …The ‘traditional’ view of paganus is that its obvious derivation from pagus and its original sense in classical Latin (= ‘rustic, hick’) governed its adoption by Christian writers … And the word in Latin is related to pangere (‘to fasten’, ‘to fix or affix’) and ultimately comes from Proto-Indo-European \*pag- (‘to fix’ in the same sense). cite : [pagan | Etymology of pagan by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/pagan) Also > [@](#): > > Pagan and heathen are primarily the same in meaning; but pagan is sometimes distinctively applied to those nations that, although worshiping false gods, are more cultivated, as the Greeks and Romans, and heathen to uncivilized idolaters, as the tribes of Africa. A Mohammedan is not counted a pagan much less a heathen. [Century Dictionary, 1897] ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/19 "2020-02-26T03:14:36Z")
According to the OED, a heathen holds religious beliefs that are considered primitive or unenlightened (relative to the speaker’s beliefs, naturally, or to the culturally dominant beliefs), while a pagan is someone who doesn’t subscribe to the major or dominant religion (or any of them, if there are moer than one). “Pagan” can have the same pejorative connotations that “heathen” has, but doesn’t necessarily have them. From a Christian perspective, Jews and Muslims are not normally considered heathens, because their religious beliefs can’t easily be dismisses as primitive or unenlightened, given how much they have in common with Christian beliefs. They could be classed as pagans, but only when “pagan” is used in the non-pejorative sense. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520/20 "2020-02-26T03:40:32Z")
Well, I have to admit that know I’m even more confused after all that contradictory information. Seems to be even more complicated than I thought. (Isn’t that always true with anything religiously related, if you may allow a non GQ comment?) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-heathen-and-pagan-synonymous-if-not-whats-the-difference/848520.md?page=2)