# Are Hollywood films getting dumber? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309 "2014-08-23T18:56:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/1 "2014-08-23T18:56:54Z")
Maybe it’s just me getting older and nostalgia setting in, or maybe it’s my current circle of friends and their taste in action/fantasy/cartoony flicks… but I can’t remember the last time I saw a “serious” blockbuster in the theater in the last few years. Are there any must-see, adult films that I might’ve missed since, oh, 2010 or so? I don’t mean pornographic, but just thoughtful, reflective, nuanced, etc., not Villain X must be destroyed by hero Y. Seems like there’s been a lot of superhero movies, Hunger Game clones, and Harry Potter wannabes. Are they still being made for mainstream releases? Or do movies of those types tend to go straight to DVD/Netflix now? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/2 "2014-08-23T19:22:22Z")
Hollywood likes to produce the action/fantasy/cartoony films that you don’t like because they play well internationally. I think the recent Transformers sequel did better in China than it did in the US. They still produce thoughtful films, but they’re rarely blockbusters. (Can you even name any “serious” blockbusters?) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/3 "2014-08-23T19:28:20Z")
The best work is being done in indie films and most especially premium cable television channels. “Game of Thrones,” “Deadwood,” “The Sopranos” … and on non-premium cable, “The Wire” and “Breaking Bad” … that’s where the really smart, creative people who want to do something different go. Hollywood makes a lot of money, but creatively, it’s a dead end. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/4 "2014-08-23T19:36:09Z")
Nitpick: The Wire was on HBO, not non-premium cable. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/5 "2014-08-23T19:39:21Z")
You’ve not been paying attention. There’s been a ton of great, thoughtful, critically acclaimed, wide release films over the last couple of years. Just off the top of my head: Boyhood 12 Years a Slave Gravity Inception Django Unchained Black Swan Drive The Wolf of Wall St Captain Phillips The Art of Killing Frances Ha Dallas Buyers Club Her Snowpiercer Lincoln And that’s just scratching the surface. There’s a ton more I could probably dredge up with a bit of research. Just do a search for “Best movies of 201X” to start building up a list. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/6 "2014-08-23T20:14:45Z")
I came here to post Inception, but I agree with the OP that HW films seem to be getting more…formulaic. I am rarely surprised anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/7 "2014-08-23T20:28:29Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > You’ve not been paying attention. There’s been a ton of great, thoughtful, critically acclaimed, wide release films over the last couple of years. > > Just off the top of my head: > > Boyhood > 12 Years a Slave > Gravity > Inception > Django Unchained > Black Swan > Drive > The Wolf of Wall St > Captain Phillips > The Art of Killing > Frances Ha > Dallas Buyers Club > Her > Snowpiercer > Lincoln > > And that’s just scratching the surface. There’s a ton more I could probably dredge up with a bit of research. > > Just do a search for “Best movies of 201X” to start building up a list. Well just off the top of MY head, 'Gravity" is a wonderfully constructed film but basically it’s a kid’s space adventure and “Snowpiercer” has such an idiot premise that it spawned a thread on the Dope about its idiot premise. I have not seen or heard much about the other films, but the fact that the only two films I know anything about are not, shall we say, brilliant in every respect, makes me suspect the rest of the list. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/8 "2014-08-23T20:39:02Z")
That list of films includes several of the most critically-acclaimed films of recent years. Several were nominated for the Best Picture Academy Award. Honestly, if you’re not aware of them, you should get out more. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/9 "2014-08-23T21:48:41Z")
Looking back at 1963-2013, there have never been a whole lot of “serious” films in the top 10 earners, with a few notable exceptions. Top grossing films from 2013: The Hunger Games: Catching Fire Iron Man 3 Frozen Despicable Me 2 Man of Steel Gravity Monsters University The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Fast & Furious 6 Oz The Great and Powerful Top grossing films from 2003: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King Finding Nemo Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl The Matrix Reloaded Bruce Almighty X2: X-Men United Elf Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines The Matrix Revolutions Cheaper by the Dozen Top grossing films from 1993: Jurassic Park Mrs. Doubtfire The Fugitive The Firm Sleepless in Seattle Indecent Proposal In the Line of Fire The Pelican Brief Schindler’s List Cliffhanger Top grossing films from 1983: Return of the Jedi Terms of Endearment Flashdance Trading Places WarGames Octopussy Sudden Impact Staying Alive Mr. Mom Risky Business Top grossing films from 1973: The Sting The Exorcist American Graffiti Papillon The Way We Were Magnum Force Last Tango in Paris Live and Let Die Robin Hood Paper Moon Top grossing films from 1963: Cleopatra How the West Was Won It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World Tom Jones Irma la Douce The Sword in the Stone Son of Flubber The Birds Dr. No The V.I.P.s ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/10 "2014-08-23T22:46:30Z")
At least part of the problem is that making attention-getting films these days is so incredibly expensive that the prime motivator for most major studio projects is minimizing risk, which means following tried-and-true formulas that worked in the past. I read somewhere that major studios like Disney make no bones about the fact that they’re heavily invested in sequels rather than original concepts (apparently we’re going to be getting _Star Wars_ sequels until the end of time!). Even many of the good recent films like “Captain Phillips” and “Wolf of Wall Street” were basically technically excellent productions of blockbuster entertainment rather than anything that digs a little deeper and leaves a lasting impression. A good recent example of the latter was “Inside Llewyn Davis” which, however, was a bigger hit with critics than with the general public (those would be the ones who actually pay real money to see a film), and someone here recently dissed it as being “boring”. Hence more and more, creative filmmakers are beaten up by the studio bean counters who cater to formulas that have been proven to resonate with the mass audiences. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/11 "2014-08-24T06:49:19Z")
As has been mentioned before, for decades now the percentage of a Hollywood film’s box office that comes from outside the U.S. has been increasing. Hollywood no longer cares about what you think about a blockbuster film. It can make its money back just from the foreign release. The sort of subtlety (or even coherence) that you want doesn’t translate well. From now on, look for the small independent films and the foreign films. This means that you’ll have to work harder to find what movies are playing and might have to travel farther to see them, but that’s how it is these days. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/12 "2014-08-24T08:07:06Z")
I think the trope of foreign audiences dumbing down movies may have been true in the late 90s/early 00s but it’s not true today. One of the huge factors in the resurgence of well constructed, critically acclaimed movies has been that foreign audiences have become increasingly sophisticated and demanding. If you compare percentage grosses between the big dumb explosionfests and thoughtful well constructed movies, it’s hard to see a huge difference. For example: [Transformers 4](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=transformers4.htm): 77% of 1 billion [Man of Steel](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2012.htm): 56% of 680 million [Frozen](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=frozen2013.htm): 69% of 1.2 billion [Iron Man 3](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ironman3.htm): 63% of 1.2 billion Compared to: [12 Years a Slave](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=twelveyearsaslave.htm): 70% of 188 million [Django Unchained](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=djangounchained.htm): 62% of 425 million [Inception](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=inception.htm): 65% of 825 million [Black Swan](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=blackswan.htm): 67% of 329 million I think a lot of people in this thread simply haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on with movies over the last few years and are still repeating the same tired old tropes that are no longer relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-hollywood-films-getting-dumber/696309/13 "2014-08-24T08:26:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > At least part of the problem is that making attention-getting films these days is so incredibly expensive that the prime motivator for most major studio projects is minimizing risk, which means following tried-and-true formulas that worked in the past. I read somewhere that major studios like Disney make no bones about the fact that they’re heavily invested in sequels rather than original concepts (apparently we’re going to be getting _Star Wars_ sequels until the end of time!). I disagree. I see producers increasingly willing to take risks on hundred million dollar productions. If you have a look at some of the well made blockbusters of recent years, their pitches must of sounded crazy insane and incredibly risky to the Hollywood system, yet someone believed enough for them to get made: “Our Marvel tentpole this summer is going to be a comic that nobody’s ever read, featuring a talking raccoon and a walking tree” “We’re going to give Guillermo Del Toro a boatload of money to make a live action version of the Japanese cartoons of his childhood” “Let’s give Alfonso Cuarón every CGI tool in the world to make a space movie with no aliens and only 2 characters” “Let’s give Christopher Nolan a ton of money to make a philosophical mind twister” “Lesbian Ballet!” Sure there’s also a ton of big dumb explosionfests but there’s always big dumb explosionfests to be made because they also make money. > [@](#): > > Even many of the good recent films like “Captain Phillips” and “Wolf of Wall Street” were basically technically excellent productions of blockbuster entertainment rather than anything that digs a little deeper and leaves a lasting impression. A good recent example of the latter was “Inside Llewyn Davis” which, however, was a bigger hit with critics than with the general public (those would be the ones who actually pay real money to see a film), and someone here recently dissed it as being “boring”. Hence more and more, creative filmmakers are beaten up by the studio bean counters who cater to formulas that have been proven to resonate with the mass audiences. If you think Captain Phillips or Wolf of Wall St don’t have any larger meaning or message, then I suggest that maybe you’re not watching movies correctly.