# Are humans carnivores, herbivores or omnivores? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058 "2008-04-20T00:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/21 "2008-04-21T10:12:07Z")
My mind is boggled at how someone could pose such a contrived and contorted collection of arguments without at least momentarily thinking “crikey, I am _reaching a bit_ here, in places, aren’t I?”. Is this a case of _The Noble Lie_ or something? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/22 "2008-04-21T10:29:02Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] My mind is boggled at how someone could pose such a contrived and contorted collection of arguments without at least momentarily thinking “crikey, I am _reaching a bit_ here, in places, aren’t I?” [/QUOTE] What pegs my Moron Meter is that he made all that text part of the image file. ---
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/23 "2008-04-21T10:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=glee] The fanatical vegetarian in your link uses ‘science’ to prove his case. ‘Put a 2 year old in a playpen with a rabbit and an apple. If he eats the rabbit, humans are carnivores.’ :smack: :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I wonder about this argument, wouldn’t very young carnivores also also play with the rabbit? Doesn’t explain why humans, as a species, had a very bloody history. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/24 "2008-04-21T10:37:16Z")
If I recall, there are some B-complex vitamins we need that you simply can’t get from the vegetable kingdom. This strongly suggests that we’ve always gotten meat in our diet when we could, even if it was just the occasional bug. (I remember reading that even in religious cultures that are vegan, there’s usually enough insect residue in grain to supply the required nutrients.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/25 "2008-04-21T10:45:09Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] What pegs my Moron Meter is that he made all that text part of the image file. [/QUOTE] That is odd. The whole site looks like that, but some of the other parts of are Flash-based - maybe the author fired his Flash developer and is still trying to keep everything looking the same? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/26 "2008-04-21T14:29:27Z")
[QUOTE=Shalmanese] I believe flour has roughly 10 grams per 100 of protein. Bread, having water as well would have less protein. [/QUOTE] According to Pennington and Church, _Food Values of Portions Commonly Used, 14th edition_, wheat flour has about 13 grams of protein per 100 grams. Wheat breads are about 9-11 grams. Here’s another [online source](http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein-bread.htm) that also shows bread at about 10 grams. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/27 "2008-04-21T14:39:37Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] > [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Saturated fats–used for cooking, flavoring, condiment, et cetera–are probably the biggest curplit in excess caloric content Surely it’s simple carbohydrates - e.g. high-fructose corn syrup - that have this ignominy. [/QUOTE] You tend to take in more overall calories as carbohydrates, but you tend to store more fats rather than metabolize them. Fat intake tends to stimulate fat storage (because it is easier to convert and store fats than to synthesize them from carbs and proteins) and fats are typically more than twice as dense as carbs in terms of caloric contenct in “raw” form, and typically even more dense in final comsumed form. Of course, consuming more bulk carbohydrates–especially colas and other sugar drinks–lets you pack in the calories pretty quickly too without fats and without really feeling full, and also mucks up your blood sugar/insulin balance which further screws up metabolism. But per unit calorie, eating fats will produce more body fat. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/28 "2008-04-21T14:44:07Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] According to Pennington and Church, _Food Values of Portions Commonly Used, 14th edition_, wheat flour has about 13 grams of protein per 100 grams. Wheat breads are about 9-11 grams. Here’s another [online source](http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein-bread.htm) that also shows bread at about 10 grams. [/QUOTE] Concur: bread is typically made from ‘strong’ flour, which is at the higher end of the protein content statistics - typically 13 percent protein by weight, but often higher. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/29 "2008-04-21T14:53:06Z")
I found the uidea that “it’s hard to catch animals” as a reason we’re not carnivores. Well, duh, they don’t want to get eaten! Even dedicated pack hunters lose a lot of prey under the best of cirucmstances. Humans naturally (heh heh) use tools to augment their killing power. It’s what we do. But even leaving that aside, humans can be pretty quick and vicious with nothing but their limbs if they want to be. We don’t think of most animals as “enemies”, however, so we tend to be shocked and not respond properly. We usually think of them as pets. So when small animals respond aggressively, it shocks us. If you get attacked by an angry cat, you’re probably not going to fight back. You won’t snatch the cat and choke it, rip it’s tail off, stomp it, or smash it skull. But you could easily do all of these, with at worst a few scratches. You can kill most dogs even their viciously trying to maul you if you’re brutal enough - and being human, you have the advantage of intelligence-using doctors to treat any broken limbs or cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/30 "2008-04-21T15:38:40Z")
[QUOTE=glee] The fanatical vegetarian in your link uses ‘science’ to prove his case. ‘Put a 2 year old in a playpen with a rabbit and an apple. If he eats the rabbit, humans are carnivores.’ :smack: :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Using my cousin Guille, humans are carnivores… he’d bite anything within reach, and I mean anything. If my uncle’s German Shepherd hadn’t been so sweet tempered, Guille would never have reached voting age. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/31 "2008-04-21T18:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > The fanatical vegetarian in your link uses ‘science’ to prove his case. > [@](#): > > My mind is boggled at how someone could pose such a contrived and contorted collection of arguments without at least momentarily thinking “crikey, I am reaching a bit here, in places, aren’t I?”. > > Is this a case of The Noble Lie or something? > [@](#): > > What pegs my Moron Meter is that he made all that text part of the image file. > [@](#): > > That is odd. The whole site looks like that, but some of the other parts of are Flash-based - maybe the author fired his Flash developer and is still trying to keep everything looking the same? The author of the linked page is [Dan Piraro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Piraro), a well-known cartoonist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/32 "2008-04-21T19:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] The author of the linked page is [Dan Piraro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Piraro), a well-known cartoonist. [/QUOTE] And a vegan activist. Who would’ve guessed? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058/33 "2008-04-23T07:55:27Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] That said, it is true that humans eat a much higher percentage of meat than any wild species of omnivores would naturally be able to eat… [/quote] I find that very hard to believe. Are you honestly claiming that humans eat more meat than omnivores such as foxes or raccoon dogs? > [@](#): > > … and it would be healthier for most people to eat less meat. It’s also find it very doubtful that it would be healthier for most people to eat less meat. “whenever and wherever it was ecologically possible,hunter-gatherers consumed high amounts (45–65% of energy) of animal food. Most (73%) of the worldwide hunter-gatherer societies derived \>50% (³56–65% of energy) of their subsistence from animal foods”. Cordain et al 2000 “Plant-animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in worldwide hunter-gatherer diets” Am J Clin Nutr Yet despite this HGs are almost totally free of most of the diseases that are ascribed to excesss meat consumption. As things stand the evidence strongly indicates that modern humans do not eat too much meat, indeed they may be etaing to little since few people are obtaining \>50% of their calories from meat. Rather the problem is that people get toolittle excercise, consume too many calories, too little whole plant food and too much starch. IOW it would be healthier for most people to eat more meat and less processed starch and vegetable fats ( both plant foods). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-carnivores-herbivores-or-omnivores/446058.md?page=1)