# Are humans defective? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247 "2017-04-25T23:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/21 "2017-04-26T02:46:42Z")
Our brains have tripled in size in the last 2 million years. I think we’ve gone from walking on all 4s to being bipedal in the last 7 million years. But being bipedal causes a lot of problems. A lot of humans have knee and back pain and disability from it. Evolution hasn’t worked out the kinks of walking on two legs. By the same token, I’d assume our brains tripling in size caused some problems that evolution hasn’t worked out. However the fact that we have some issues doesn’t make us defective. We are the most successful multicellular life form on earth and can live in any environment. We’ve gained mastery over various forms of science. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/22 "2017-04-26T02:48:31Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Each and every one of these assertions is just that, an unproven assertion. I have never chosen slavery over freedom and I suggest I’m not alone. > > Meaningless gibberish. Ants keep slaves too. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/23 "2017-04-26T02:55:07Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > \ > > 99+% of the time, the evolutionary process is very slow, it takes many centuries for very small changes to a species, to occur. In a few rare instances, the evolutionary process is very rapid, such as a caterpillar transforming into a butterfly. Most humans refer to this as “metamorphosis”, rather than evolution, but it is clearly an evolutionary process…\ How do you even make it past this without thinking the guy who wrote is full of shit? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/24 "2017-04-26T02:59:16Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The human being, alone among all other species, has experienced a singularly unique, unmatched and catastrophic, failure to thrive. Failure to thrive? We dominate the planet. 😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/25 "2017-04-26T02:59:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Ants keep slaves too. So do cats. They’re known as humans. ---
**Author:** ![Fredescu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/73ab20/32.png) [@Fredescu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredescu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/26 "2017-04-26T03:03:41Z")
I read the middle link. The key error in that line of thinking is this sentence: > [@middle link](#): > > Because the evolutionary process is generally very slow, any rapid or major change in the structure of a specific body part, suggests the possibility of a birth defect having occurred, instead of evolutionary change. This is a misunderstanding of evolution. An “evolutionary change” is just a mutation (or “birth defect” if you really want) that improves the ability or likelihood of the organism to reproduce. Evolution is only “slow” because it takes a long time for a mutation that actually does this to occur. Yeah humans aren’t perfect and some of us are crap, but you can’t look at humans with an understanding of evolution and come away thinking that we’re anything but hugely successful. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/27 "2017-04-26T03:04:06Z")
I am probably one of the least educated followers on this board and I can tell you with certainty that nearly all of your assertions are just flat wrong, not even a matter of interpretation just false premises. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/28 "2017-04-26T03:09:33Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The middle link pretty much sums it all up. Other forums have taken time to look at the links, that’s the reason for them being posted. If you aren’t going to at least look them over then don’t comment. The middle link? The one posted by someone called The Seer of Forbidden Truth? That talks about “Forbidden Truths” and “The Hive Mind of Universal Illusion”? There, I looked before I commented. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/29 "2017-04-26T03:11:50Z")
Oh absolutely, genetic failure isn’t an excuse. This is PROVEN by the handful of Superior Minds that despite possessing the same genetic defects and suffering and being exposed to the same external abuses and corruptions as the rest of those born human, come to be able to see and identify the Truth of their condition. I remember when I first looked at Myself within the context of the genetically defective human brain, it was a moment of enlightened feeling, not because it was excusatory or ‘humbling’ or any other rubbish but because it was True and it illuminated My limitations. It’s similar to that thing, you know, how you can’t do anything about a problem until you clearly and correctly see the problem. Thanks for sharing your experience of bias, I understand that this is very personal and I found it very interesting to consider and to re-re-evaluate My own. I think the most pervasive & damaging bias within the inferior human psyche is a very simple one. The above was a reply to the whole “essay”. I did kind of think that the whole thing was just a bunch of baseless assertions with no proof (even when there was “proof” like the links they found a way to twist that to their view). Yet despite that I was wondering if maybe I am wrong and he is just saying something that people don’t want to admit to be true. I mean, people say the truth hurts right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/30 "2017-04-26T03:17:42Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I challenge you to articulate even ONE primary-level human problem, that humanity has solved over the past 10,000 years. Just ONE, name it! Hunger? Pain? Poverty? Child abuse? Familial violence? Belief in mythologies and supernatural idols? Injustice? Death? Nothing has been solved, nothing! Everything wrong 10,000 years ago, is exactly the same today, only worse. Another beautiful evidentiary proof of the birth defect status of the human brain. Wait, what? Chimps _also_ haven’t solved death. Birds? Bears? Bulls? They haven’t solved death, or pain, or hunger. How the heck would it prove some unique birth-defect status of the human brain that we _likewise_ haven’t solved those? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/31 "2017-04-26T03:19:00Z")
The truth might hurt sometimes, but that guy’s indiocy is crippling. ---
**Author:** ![Fredescu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/73ab20/32.png) [@Fredescu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredescu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/32 "2017-04-26T03:19:24Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The human being, alone among all other species, has experienced a singularly unique, unmatched and catastrophic, failure to thrive. How about the dodo? The tasmanian tiger? Dinosaurs? Here are a few more: [Lists of extinct species - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_extinct_animals) > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human being chooses to suffer and to inflict pain/harm upon himself. Ever seen cats have sex? > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human being hides from reality, pathologically creating and dwelling within fictional illusions of the real world. We can be very ostrich like in that regard, it’s true. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human being tries to solve minor problems, while ignoring and pretending that other, much more major and important problems, don’t exist. Climate change is a massive problem and my dog isn’t doing a single thing about it. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human is a pathological addict to substances that are actively harmful to him. [http://www.alternet.org/drugs/animals-addiction](http://www.alternet.org/drugs/animals-addiction) > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human negates his own Self-value, leaving it to others to control how he feels about Himself. Have you ever owned a dog? > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human consciously chooses to harm and destroy the environment upon which he is dependent for survival. This is fairly common in the animal world. If a species gets too successful they can run out of resources. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human directs negative perception of Self, upon himself. I’m actually genuinely interested in how they figured this one out. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human insists upon continuing to do what has failed over and over in the past. Ever watched a bird try to get through a pane of glass over and over again? > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Only the human chooses slavery over freedom. It’s possible that only humans use intentionally broad definitions of scary sounding words to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/33 "2017-04-26T03:23:26Z")
Humans as a species are not defective, even if it is possible to consider a species defective. Children learn much more than a chimpanzee when they imitate adults. One day that child could be making an ape open boxes in scientific experiments, the roles are not going to be reversed. As an intelligent animal it is the monkey that seems defective. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/34 "2017-04-26T03:27:44Z")
From the list of crap above: **Only the human being chooses to suffer and to inflict pain/harm upon himself.** So when animals chew off their leg to escape a trap it doesn’t hurt? How interesting. I’m not going to bother with the rest, none of which are any better. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/35 "2017-04-26T04:10:54Z")
I’m not gonna read the links in the OP either, but I’m going to guess that you’re talking about emulative learning versus imitative learning. I can get how you’d think, at first blush, that emulative learning is better, but that’s not the case. When you look at knowledge being passed down through multiple generations, imitative learning is clearly better. Over multiple generations, each chimp generation learns more or less from scratch. Humans, on the other hand, are able to “ratchet up” their total knowledge. First they learn imitatively, and then they refine. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/36 "2017-04-26T08:13:59Z")
‘Defective’ is only a concept that makes sense in the presence of a defined standard against which a thing can be measured. Humans are complex. Complexity means greater opportunity for a range of different things to happen, and some of those things, we perceive as ‘bad’. It is the height of unintentional irony to be posting ‘humans is shit innit’ on a medium\* created from raw materials and first principles by humans. \*Computers, on the internet, on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/37 "2017-04-26T09:35:59Z")
More Seer of Forbidden Truth stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/38 "2017-04-26T09:57:56Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > More Seer of Forbidden Truth stuff? Looks to be. Seer of Rambling Bullshit, more like ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/39 "2017-04-26T10:59:04Z")
::facepalm:: Dude. You are lost in this stuff and it is _not_ helping you. Get help. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247/40 "2017-04-26T11:26:03Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ::facepalm:: > > Dude. You are lost in this stuff and it is _not_ helping you. Get help. Hey, wait a minute; is it only humans who get lost in stuff like this? 😕 :eek: 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-defective/785247.md?page=3)