# Are Humans the Weakest Animals "Pound for Pound"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016 "2014-05-22T16:47:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/21 "2014-05-22T22:43:32Z")
To answer the OP, I still say jellyfish. I doubt they have much physical strength, and their bells can be up to nearly two metres in height and diameter, according to Wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/22 "2014-05-27T14:24:12Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > As for the last sentence, it sounds like he kind of did, at least as far as animals tend to use “brute strength” to kill. You’re not likely to see an arm wrestling contest. The only fights that are “fair” battles of strength that I can think of are generally non-lethal competitions for mates, etc. Sounds to me like he stunned it by shoving his arm down its throat and while it was still off balance from that experience he got in a ferocious whack, which finished it off. I understand that humans have some advantages over other animals and can use this to overcome strength disadvantages. No shame in that. But I happen to be asking about strength. > [@](#): > > It’s partly an outlier because most humans don’t have to fight other animals often, and don’t lead the sort of lives that would make them fit for it. I think you have to consider this when deciding what evidence you’ll accept. I don’t know, humans are widely said to have no chance against chimpanzees and [Leopard predation is apparently a significant cause of mortality in chimpanzees at Taï and Lopé National Parks.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Chimpanzee#Ecology) 20 fights with this guy against a leopard, I would say the leopard wins 19. He got lucky once. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/23 "2014-05-27T15:19:58Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > We are also rather chubby compared to other mammals, even when fit, which may help in a wrestling match, but hurts in pound-for-pound strength comparisons. There are many, many mammals that are more “chubby” than humans (all the cetaceans, for example). You probably didn’t mean to imply that there weren’t, but that’s the way your post reads. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/24 "2014-05-27T16:06:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I understand that humans have some advantages over other animals and can use this to overcome strength disadvantages. No shame in that. But I happen to be asking about strength. > I don’t know, humans are widely said to have no chance against chimpanzees and [Leopard predation is apparently a significant cause of mortality in chimpanzees at Taï and Lopé National Parks.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Chimpanzee#Ecology) 20 fights with this guy against a leopard, I would say the leopard wins 19. He got lucky once. As I said, the main thing that gives a leopard an overwhelming advantage against either a human or a chimp is its claws and teeth, not necessarily its strength. Take those weapons out of the equation and the battle might be much more even. A rather clearer example of a predator that is almost certainly physically weaker than a human is the Cheetah. I have little doubt an athletic human of the same weight could overpower one, perhaps even if it were able to use its teeth. The [Maned Wolf](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maned_Wolf) is also unlikely to do too well against a human (although it’s a bit smaller). Virtually any hoofed animal that is built for speed, such as a gazelle or other antelope, can probably be overpowered and held down by a human of similar weight. As I mentioned, a human can overpower a steer and possibly even hold it down. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/25 "2014-05-27T17:52:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In general, Primates are pretty powerful, pound for pound. So, a human in perfect condition will likely be stronger -pound for pound- than many other mammals. > > Of course, we lack claws, sharp teeth, etc. And certainly other primates are stronger than us. Much stronger, in fact, because in the course of our evolution more and more of our total diet has gone to fueling and maintaining our brains, and less to building up bone density and muscle mass. All those things have a cost in terms of the food we consume, and our evolutionary process selected brains over brawn. It seems that given just about any trait which is costly in these terms will be lost if the animal no longer needs it–for example flightless bird species on predator-free islands. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/26 "2014-05-28T17:30:14Z")
Couple of related links: [How modern humans have become WEAKLINGS compared with our ancient ancestors who could outrun and outlift today’s top athletes](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2614780/How-FARMERS-fitter-athletes-Human-strength-speed-peaked-7-300-years-ago-declining-rapidly.html) > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Human leg bones have grown weaker since farming was invented[/li][li] Scientists found bone structure declined after agriculture emerged[/li][li] Male farmers 7,300 years ago had legs of cross-country runners[/li][li] But just 3,000 years later, they had legs comparable to ‘sedentary’ students[/li][/ul] > [@](#): > > An earlier study by Cambridge University found that mankind is shrinking in size significantly. > > Experts say humans are past their peak and that modern-day people are 10 per cent smaller and shorter than their hunter-gatherer ancestors. > > And if that’s not depressing enough, our brains are also smaller. > > The findings reverse perceived wisdom that humans have grown taller and larger, a belief which has grown from data on more recent physical development. > > The decline, said scientists, has happened over the past 10,000 years. And: [Evolution made ‘weedy’ humans choose brains over brawn](http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/evolution-made-weedy-humans-choose-brains-over-brawn-30310066.html) > [@](#): > > A study has found that over the course of evolution, essential molecules had changed even more rapidly in human muscle than in the brain. The rate of change in muscle was 10 times that seen in our closest animal cousin, the chimpanzee. > > In contrast, the molecules in the human brain had evolved four times faster. > > The scientists believe human muscle needed to alter drastically to free up energy for the brain becoming puny. > > Lead researcher Dr Kasia Bozek, from the CAS-MPG Partner Institute for Computational Biology in Shanghai, said: “Our results suggest a special energy management in humans that allows us to spare energy for our extraordinary cognitive powers at a cost of weak muscle.” > [@Colibri](#): > > As I said, the main thing that gives a leopard an overwhelming advantage against either a human or a chimp is its claws and teeth, not necessarily its strength. Take those weapons out of the equation and the battle might be much more even. My point was just that you can’t really show much if anything from that one encounter. > [@](#): > > A rather clearer example of a predator that is almost certainly physically weaker than a human is the Cheetah. I have little doubt an athletic human of the same weight could overpower one, perhaps even if it were able to use its teeth. On what basis do you assume this? (Cheetahs are a lot smaller than people, on average.) > [@](#): > > Virtually any hoofed animal that is built for speed, such as a gazelle or other antelope, can probably be overpowered and held down by a human of similar weight. As I mentioned, a human can overpower a steer and possibly even hold it down. You also mentioned that that has to do with leverage. Who can pull/push/lift more? Apparently, [deer are deceptively strong](http://www.snopes.com/critters/farce/ropedeer.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/27 "2014-05-28T19:46:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > My point was just that you can’t really show much if anything from that one encounter. At least it demonstrates a leopard being the victor isn’t a forgone conclusion. > [@](#): > > On what basis do you assume this? (Cheetahs are a lot smaller than people, on average.) They are not “a lot” smaller then people. There’s plenty of overlap, since Cheetahs get up to 160 lb. Cheetahs are much more lightly built than people. On what basis do you assume that one would be stronger than a human? > [@](#): > > You also mentioned that that has to do with leverage. Who can pull/push/lift more? As you said in the OP, direct comparison between animals of very different builds may be difficult or impossible. However, as a biologist I see no particular reason to assume that humans are weakest pound for pound (especially a human living the ancestral hunter-gatherer life style). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/28 "2014-05-28T19:52:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are many, many mammals that are more “chubby” I, for one, have lived with a number of chubby non-human mammals, for example this one: [Molly](https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3681/14106438587_bda822276d_b_d.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/29 "2014-05-28T20:06:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Apparently, [deer are deceptively strong](http://www.snopes.com/critters/farce/ropedeer.asp). Your cite is an unverified anecdote from Snopes? :dubious: You’re really reaching. We don’t know the weight of either the human or the deer. However, the narrator says he would have been able to fight down a colt or a steer in that weight range. And the human was a bit of an idiot who didn’t know what he was doing. If you want to believe that humans are the weakest animals (as you seem to), you’re welcome to. However, you’re going to have to provide much better cites than that. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/30 "2014-05-28T20:06:27Z")
[Nodding politely towards F-P): I thank you sir. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Couple of related links: > > [How modern humans have become WEAKLINGS compared with our ancient ancestors who could outrun and outlift today’s top athletes](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2614780/How-FARMERS-fitter-athletes-Human-strength-speed-peaked-7-300-years-ago-declining-rapidly.html)And: [Evolution made ‘weedy’ humans choose brains over brawn](http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/evolution-made-weedy-humans-choose-brains-over-brawn-30310066.html)My point was just that you can’t really show much if anything from that one encounter. > > On what basis do you assume this? (Cheetahs are a lot smaller than people, on average.) > > You also mentioned that that has to do with leverage. Who can pull/push/lift more? > > Apparently, [deer are deceptively strong](http://www.snopes.com/critters/farce/ropedeer.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/31 "2014-05-28T20:21:40Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > They are not “a lot” smaller then people. There’s plenty of overlap, since Cheetahs get up to 160 lb. They top out at about 160. People top out at a lot higher. Cheetahs seem to have a pretty broad range, sizewise. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetah#Description): “\*The adult cheetah weighs from 21 to 72 kg (46 to 159 lb)”. \*Unless they’re all concentrated at the upper bound there with an occasional pygmy, I would say that’s a lot smaller than people. > [@](#): > > Cheetahs are much more lightly built than people. On what basis do you assume that one would be stronger than a human? I don’t know. You made a statement and I asked you for the basis of this. > [@Colibri](#): > > Your cite is an unverified anecdote from Snopes? :dubious: You’re really reaching. > > We don’t know the weight of either the human or the deer. However, the narrator says he would have been able to fight down a colt or a steer in that weight range. And the human was a bit of an idiot who didn’t know what he was doing. Sorry, the point of the link wasn’t the anecdote. It was the opening sentences from Snopes, which said (emphasis added): \*"While the view of deer held by urban dwellers posits these creatures as big-eyed cute critters that are all grace and gentleness, those who actually deal with them know these animals to be \*\*incredibly strong \*_and at times vicious, a reality far removed from the “Bambi” image cherished by so many. Deer, especially when enraged or terrified, can be quite dangerous to deal with: they’re fast, **strong** , agile, and armed with sharp hooves (and sometimes antlers)."_ Now I don’t know how authoritative Snopes is - or how authoritative you are, for that matter - but in any event it’s not about “unverified anecdote from Snopes”, and the details of that supposed anecdote are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/32 "2014-05-28T21:07:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If you want to believe that humans are the weakest animals (as you seem to), you’re welcome to. However, you’re going to have to provide much better cites than that. Just to reiterate. You seem to be more interested in arguing in favor of the idea that humans are weakest rather than actually obtaining information on the subject. So I’m out of here (unless someone else has some actually relevant points). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/33 "2014-05-28T22:55:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You seem to be more interested in arguing in favor of the idea that humans are weakest rather than actually obtaining information on the subject. I don’t see it that way. Nonetheless, if people come up with baseless assertions and dubious “facts” such as what you’re produced here, then I reserve the right to point them out for what they are. > [@](#): > > So I’m out of here If all you were going to do was make bogus declarations and then get all huffy when you get challenged, then no great loss, frankly. I appreciate that you frequently have a lot to offer on these types of subjects, but that does not seem to have been the case WRT this specific topic. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/34 "2014-05-29T08:44:03Z")
Humans may be weak, but they have some tactical advantages. They have long arms that can wrap around things. I believe it could be possible to kill an animal like a leopard by performing an MMA style chokehold. Also the legs of most animals look like having a very limited range of motion. I guess if a human could grab a limb and pull it sideways with enough force it could incapacitate the animal, or at least, inflict great pain. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/35 "2014-05-29T17:36:52Z")
Given our advantages, are there animals particularly wary of humans due to our builds? I’m not taking about prey animals that will bolt from so much as an errant shadow, but animals comparable to a human size and weight? I imagine to many animals we are quite strange. Not a ton of bipeds out there. We can also throw things well, which I imagine would confuse some animals. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/36 "2014-05-29T17:52:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I assume you’re talking about [Carl Akeley.](http://www.badassoftheweek.com/akeley.html)He didn’t use a knife, he actually killed it with his bare hands. He had two good arms, but the leopard had seized on of them. He killed it by ramming his hand further down its throat and basically strangling it from the inside. So remember kids, fisting is dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/37 "2014-05-29T22:17:05Z")
Whatever you think of F-P’s cites, hasn’t the fossil record demonstrated conclusively the bones of anatomically modern humans–including those from the pre-agricultural era–are far lighter and thinner than the bones of other hominids, and that our musculature is thereby considerably less robust, based how and where the muscles attach to the bones? Thinner bones certainly didn’t make us stronger physically. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/38 "2014-05-30T23:58:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > They top out at about 160. People top out at a lot higher. Cheetahs seem to have a pretty broad range, sizewise. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetah#Description): “\*The adult cheetah weighs from 21 to 72 kg (46 to 159 lb)”. \*Unless they’re all concentrated at the upper bound there with an occasional pygmy, I would say that’s a lot smaller than people. I think you might be surprised at [how much adult humans normally weigh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_weight). Americans and Europeans are (unsurprisingly) outliers in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/39 "2014-05-31T01:26:12Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016/40 "2014-05-31T01:44:24Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Whatever you think of F-P’s cites, hasn’t the fossil record demonstrated conclusively the bones of anatomically modern humans–including those from the pre-agricultural era–are far lighter and thinner than the bones of other hominids, and that our musculature is thereby considerably less robust, based how and where the muscles attach to the bones? Thinner bones certainly didn’t make us stronger physically. Modern humans are certainly less muscular than Neanderthals, at any rate. The extreme musculature of Neanderthals has been thought to be due to a hunting style that included physically overpowering game animals, perhaps like bull-dogging a steer. Neanderthals lacked the bow and arrow or spear throwers and so wasn’t as able to kill game at a distance like modern humans, who have better throwing ability. It may be that modern humans were able to become less muscular as they gained better ability to kill prey with spears and arrows. However, even so it doesn’t mean they are weaker than any other animal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-humans-the-weakest-animals-pound-for-pound/689016.md?page=3)