# Are Irish Protestants really Irish? What do they think of themselves as being? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 22, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703 "2014-07-22T00:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/41 "2014-07-24T01:21:47Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My ancestors from County Armagh were Protestant, with Irish Gaelic surnames, and identified as Irish, and ONLY as Irish (they left before Irish independence). I know that’s tangential from the OP’s question, which is about right now, but I just wanted to point out that a lot of the indigenous Irish became Protestant and switched to English, under pressure to assimilate with the dominant ruling culture. I have wondered how many planters were Scottish Gaelic speakers and later on, through mixing with natives (for want of a better term) how much of Protestant identity was expressed through Irish Gaelic. I suspect there may have been Irish Gaelic speaking Orange Lodges in Donegal but I have not yet found evidence to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/42 "2014-07-24T05:32:02Z")
A friend of mine who fits the description is **very** adamant that he’s British, not Irish. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/43 "2014-07-24T12:45:03Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > A friend of mine who fits the description is **very** adamant that he’s British, not Irish. Which sort of “Irish Protestant” is he? Does he march every July? Does he occasionally attend the Church of Ireland? Does he live in the North or the Republic or somewhere else entirely? Does he own a horse? (Brendan Behan’s definition of “Anglo-Irish.”) What do the other “British” consider him? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/44 "2014-07-24T13:35:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Getting drunk? I think they’re looking for mannerisms that will distinguish the Irish from those other folks living in (on?) the British Isles… ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/45 "2014-07-24T14:02:26Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I think they’re looking for mannerisms that will distinguish the Irish from those other folks living in (on?) the British Isles… Yeah, it’s not like Britain is a nation of tea-totalers. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/46 "2014-07-24T14:08:54Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > …My people would object to being referred to as Scots because we never left. There is archaeological evidence of our family being on our land for at least 3,000 years. (See “souterrain” above, which also contained a Viking long sword.) > > The OPs question was about genetic groups. And thus my point, if you trace back far enough, you find most of the Scots who would have been transplanted would have been genetic descendants of Irish Gaels, who happened to be Presbyterian and either loyal to Cromwell or willing to pretend so if it got them some land… > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My ancestors from County Armagh were Protestant, with Irish Gaelic surnames, and identified as Irish, and ONLY as Irish (they left before Irish independence)… I have some ancestors from Glasgow who saw themselves as 1) Scottish 2) Scottish and 3) Scottish. They had a Gaelic-origin last name which is identical with an Irish Gaelic name. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/47 "2014-07-24T14:40:33Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > …and it is clear to me that there are Protestants who have no issue with being identified as “Irish” and other who are at pains to explain how they’re not (at least in my company). For me, this totally depends on the company, and the detail / interest they have in the topic. I’m very often asked where I’m from due to my accent, but usually only by people (okay, by barmen) who know the minutiae of NI and feel confident to ask - so I say the name of my village and see if they know it - generally they do. If I think they don’t have much of a clue, I’ll offer ‘Belfast’ or even ‘Northern Ireland’ as a generic catch-all, although I’m not from the former by any reasonable local yardstick. I’ve no issue at all with being considered ‘Irish’ when abroad (hey, the accent doesn’t lie) but would definitely consider myself to be ‘British’ first and foremost. Also, coming from an NI ‘nominally (read _atheist_) protestant’ background, I don’t think I’ve ever referred to myself as _being_ from Ulster, except when at the rugby or football games, with the whole “_Stand up for the Ulsterme_n” and all that caper. > [@](#): > > I know that all people originally from Northern Ireland are typically seen as “Irish” in Britain regardless of their cultural background. Since moving to live in England, it’s (sort of) hilarious how little the English know (or care) about the differentiations and situation of NI. Most don’t even seem to realise that NI is currently part of the UK, get confused why it isn’t in GB, don’t know that ‘Ireland’ isn’t actually a country etc… I blame the Olympic team name - at least in the Commonwealths we get a recognised team from [‘my wee country’](http://www.pinterest.com/garetharcher/my-wee-country-northern-ireland/). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/48 "2014-07-24T22:16:03Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > Since moving to live in England, it’s (sort of) hilarious how little the English know (or care) about the differentiations and situation of NI. Most don’t even seem to realise that NI is currently part of the UK, get confused why it isn’t in GB, don’t know that ‘Ireland’ isn’t actually a country etc… I blame the Olympic team name - at least in the Commonwealths we get a recognised team from [‘my wee country’](http://www.pinterest.com/garetharcher/my-wee-country-northern-ireland/). 🙂 I find that surprising. I would be amazed if anyone I know is not fully conversant with the status of Northern Ireland within the UK. It’s just basic common knowledge. Anyway, Ireland \*is \*a country, isn’t it? This whole thread is a bit weird to me. I have never heard anyone call themselves an “Ulster Scot”, and I have met plenty of people from Northern Ireland. None of them seemed particularly religious or political. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/49 "2014-07-24T22:28:01Z")
Don’t forget to raise a glass to the poor lonely [West Brits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit). ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/50 "2014-07-24T22:32:29Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I find that surprising. I would be amazed if anyone I know is not fully conversant with the status of Northern Ireland within the UK. It’s just basic common knowledge. > > […] I was in Lincoln at a small pub once and chatting to the Barmaid and a couple of locals. They asked me how I was enjoying my visit to the UK, and I told them I was having a great time. I mentioned that I was going to see Stonehenge before I went back to the States. Two out of the three people had never heard of it, they were younger, but still, that was rather shocking. The third guy was visibly embarrassed for them. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that you can find Londoners who don’t know much about Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/51 "2014-07-24T22:57:43Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I find that surprising. I would be amazed if anyone I know is not fully conversant with the status of Northern Ireland within the UK. It’s just basic common knowledge. Anyway, Ireland \*is \*a country, isn’t it? > > This whole thread is a bit weird to me. I have never heard anyone call themselves an “Ulster Scot”, and I have met plenty of people from Northern Ireland. None of them seemed particularly religious or political. Nobody by default refers to themselves as “Ulster Scot” afaik but if you probed a person about their culture you might get them talking about Ulster Scots culture. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/52 "2014-07-24T23:17:53Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Anyway, Ireland \*is \*a country, isn’t it? Nope; Ireland is an island, on which there are currently two countries, the Republic of Ireland & Northern Ireland. Separate governments, separate currencies. But I actually suspect you knew that already. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/53 "2014-07-24T23:29:21Z")
> [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](#): > > I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that you can find Londoners who don’t know much about Northern Ireland. Some people, sure. \*\*Aro \*\*said “most”. [QUOTE=Aro] Nope; Ireland is an island, on which there are currently two countries, the Republic of Ireland & Northern Ireland. Separate governments, separate currencies. But I actually suspect you knew that already. [/QUOTE] The official name of the country is simply “Ireland”, although it is often referred to as the Republic of Ireland by way of disambiguation. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/54 "2014-07-25T05:58:26Z")
[QUOTE=Ximenean] The official name of the country is simply “Ireland”, although it is often referred to as the Republic of Ireland by way of disambiguation. [/QUOTE] As with everything else, this carries quite a bit of political baggage, on both sides of the divide, so I 'll withdraw my original comment and leave it there. Also, I meant ‘most’ with regards to all the people I’ve met and conversed with in England, which clearly isn’t a majority of everyone. (I’m not in London). YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/55 "2014-07-25T12:58:35Z")
Someone called this a weird thread earlier, but I feel it gave me some granular knowledge that I didn’t have before. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703/56 "2014-07-25T15:03:46Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Don’t forget to raise a glass to the poor lonely [West Brits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit). West Brits don’t exist, unless maybe in Cornwall or Devon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-irish-protestants-really-irish-what-do-they-think-of-themselves-as-being/693703.md?page=2)