# Are Ivy League and other top universities hotbeds of racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033 "2015-12-10T02:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/141 "2015-12-15T20:21:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Are we sure it’s even possible to be blind to race? [Our brains react differently to people who don’t look like us](http://www.medicaldaily.com/racism-innate-human-brain-makes-unconscious-decisions-based-ethnicity-240970), in what’s probably a holdover from our tribal past. There are a lot of studies purporting to show that there’s a subconscious bias against people other races in everyone, or perhaps just in white people. I think it’s understandable that many people are skeptical of such things. Scientific claims to know what’s going on in everyone’s subconscious started with Sigmund Freud, who said that men are subconsciously attracted to their mothers and that women subconsciously have penis envy. His claims weren’t true, and neither were a great many other supposedly scientific findings about the subconscious. The article that you linked to is about a survey of researching attempting to determine which regions of the brain are active when people are making judgments after seeing someone’s race. The tool being used is MRI brain scans, and [there are many seriously reasons to be doubtful about MRIs being used in that way](http://www.yalescientific.org/2014/04/debunking-science-fmri-a-not-so-reliable-mind-reader/). Indeed, at the moment there seems to be no reliable proof that MRIs can isolate what brain region is used for any social tasks. More generally, in psychology research, [most results can’t be replicated](http://www.sciencemag.org/content/349/6251/aac4716). There are [a great many possible causes](http://www.weeklystandard.com/making-it-all-up/article/1042807): small and unrepresentative samples, bias towards positive findings, outright fraud. Findings about subconscious racism are among those that have proved difficult to replicate, to put it mildly. Even before the Reproducibility Project, direct replications failed to find evidence for many other effects that the social psychology literature treats as settled science. “Single-exposure conditioning”​—​if you’re offered a pen while your favorite music is playing, you’ll like the pen better than one offered while less appealing music plays. The “primacy of warmth effect,” which tells us our perceptions are more favorable to people described as “warm” than to people described as “competent.” The “Romeo and Juliet effect”: Intervention by parents in a child’s romantic relationship only intensifies the feelings of romance. None of these could be directly replicated. Perhaps most consequentially, replications failed to validate many uses of the Implicit Association Test, which is the most popular research tool in social psychology. Its designers say the test detects unconscious biases, including racial biases, that persistently drive human behavior. Sifting data from the IAT, social scientists tell us that at least 75 percent of white Americans are racist, whether they know it or not, even when they publicly disavow racial bigotry. This implicit racism induces racist behavior as surely as explicit racism. The paper introducing the IAT’s application to racial attitudes has been cited in more than 6,600 studies, according to Google Scholar. The test is commonly used in courts and classrooms across the country. That the United States is in the grip of an epidemic of implicit racism is simply taken for granted by social psychologists​—​another settled fact too good to check. Few of them have ever returned to the original data. Those who have done so have discovered that the direct evidence linking IAT results to specific behavior is in fact negligible, with small samples and weak effects that have seldom if ever been replicated. One team of researchers went through the IAT data on racial attitudes and behavior and concluded there wasn’t much evidence either way. “The broad picture that emerges from our reanalysis,” they wrote, “is that the published results [confirming the IAT and racism] are likely to be conditional and fragile and do not permit broad conclusions about the prevalence of discriminatory tendencies in American society.” Their debunking paper, “Strong Claims and Weak Evidence,” has been cited in fewer than 100 studies. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/142 "2015-12-15T20:23:42Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > This cite says Harvey Mudd uses affirmative action in their hiring policies. > > [https://www.hmc.edu/dean-of-faculty/available-faculty-positions/](https://www.hmc.edu/dean-of-faculty/available-faculty-positions/) From the cite: > [@](#): > > Harvey Mudd College is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action employer 😃 From a [paper on affirmative action in California Schools](http://www.roanoke.edu/Documents/Christian_Weisenbacher_Breithaupt%20(1).pdf): > [@](#): > > Stanford University and Harvey Mudd College have both used affirmative action programs > since before 1990 and through 2004 (Beckman 305, 211). From a [2014 article on affirmative action for women in STEM fields at Harvey Mudd:](http://www.forbes.com/sites/85broads/2011/12/12/how-one-college-president-is-breaking-down-barriers-for-women-in-tech/) > [@](#): > > But a nationally recognized computer scientist, mathematician and educator is determined to reverse the trend. When Dr. Maria Klawe (pronounced Kla Vay) became president of Harvey Mudd College in Southern California five years ago, she embarked on a strategic effort, similar to an overhaul she led at Princeton in her former position there as Dean of Engineering, to increase the presence of women in STEM fields. Ball’s in your court, ITR. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/143 "2015-12-15T20:24:00Z")
I was wrong on the timeline - I am talking about the hoax hate crime (as well as later reactions, which IIRC did include cries for more diversity spending). Is the call for the FBI and the rallies what you meant by what they “really” wanted? I don’t see how it disproves that they asked for money earlier, as they have done more recently. ISTM to be included in the “and so forth” previously mentioned. Maybe I can see if I can find any specific demands for more diversity spending in the hoax case, if that will help. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/144 "2015-12-15T20:24:48Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > “The broad picture that emerges from our reanalysis,” they wrote, “is that the published results [confirming the IAT and racism] are likely to be conditional and fragile and do not permit broad conclusions about the prevalence of discriminatory tendencies in American society.” Their debunking paper, “Strong Claims and Weak Evidence,” has been cited in fewer than 100 studies.[/INDENT] One wonders why… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/145 "2015-12-15T20:46:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was wrong on the timeline - I am talking about the hoax hate crime (as well as later reactions, which IIRC did include cries for more diversity spending). > > Is the call for the FBI and the rallies what you meant by what they “really” wanted? I don’t see how it disproves that they asked for money earlier, as they have done more recently. ISTM to be included in the “and so forth” previously mentioned. > > Maybe I can see if I can find any specific demands for more diversity spending in the hoax case, if that will help. > > Regards, > Shodan “And so forth” almost always means “and in the same vein.” It doesn’t mean, “and other unrelated things.” The claim becomes meaningless if that’s it: to say, “The only way to solve the problem is to throw money at it, and so forth [including other things that aren’t throwing money at it],” is a very weak claim. I, for example, oppose eating of animal flesh, and the only possible thing you can serve me is tofu, black beans, tempeh, and so forth, including hamburgers or sausage. Do you find that claim unremarkable? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/146 "2015-12-15T21:48:48Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > This is widely known. Here is an article that discusses it. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/investing-in-geographic-diversity-on-college-campuses/2013/06/21/a3435986-d9b2-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/investing-in-geographic-diversity-on-college-campuses/2013/06/21/a3435986-d9b2-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e_story.html) > > Not knowing something that basic pretty much disqualifies your opinion. That article doesn’t say what you claim it says. Let’s recall what you said to **UltraVires** : “You already are [getting preferences]! Nearly every selective university gives advantages to underrepresented geographic areas. … The fact that you seemingly didn’t know that people in Appalachia ARE given preference speaks volumes about your ignorance on the issue.” The article that you linked doesn’t actually mention any university giving preferences to one geographic area over another, in the same way that affirmative action gives preference to certain races over others. Moreover, the article only mentions policies in two states (Texas and Michigan) affecting only public universities. Those states have fine schools, I’m sure, but for you to offer only them as proof that “Nearly every selective university gives advantages to underrepresented geographic areas” is obviously an utterly ridiculous thing to do. Public universities in Texas and Michigan do not make up most selective universities. And lastly, I’m pretty sure that Appalachia is not in Texas or Michigan. So you insulted the intelligence of both myself at **UltraVires** because we supposedly didn’t know about the geographic preferences given by selective universities, and know it turns out that such geographic preferences don’t exist. I won’t rub it in though, since you’re surely feeling embarrassed enough already. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/147 "2015-12-15T21:59:15Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So you insulted the intelligence of both myself at **UltraVires** because we supposedly didn’t know about the geographic preferences given by selective universities, and know it turns out that such geographic preferences don’t exist. I won’t rub it in though, since you’re surely feeling embarrassed enough already. Man, it is the WORST when people misrepresent their cites, amiright? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/148 "2015-12-15T22:09:34Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > This cite says Harvey Mudd uses affirmative action in their hiring policies. > > [https://www.hmc.edu/dean-of-faculty/available-faculty-positions/](https://www.hmc.edu/dean-of-faculty/available-faculty-positions/) Okay, I was wrong. What I should have said is that Harvey Mudd College has no affirmative action in student admissions, presently. Recall why we’re debating this. You said that if colleges did colorblind admissions, then “That logic would lead almost every elite university being almost all Chinese and Indian students.” Harvey Mudd College currently has no racially discriminatory policies in admissions, yet it isn’t dominated by Chinese and Indian students. So your point was completely untrue. There’s actually a university in Southern California that proves you wrong even more thoroughly: [Caltech, which has never used affirmative action or any other kind of racial discrimination in admissions](http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2010/12/why_caltech_is_in_a_class_by_i/). (That said, I’m not sure why you think that Chinese and Indian students are so threatening that we should fear them attending our college in large numbers. If Harvey Mudd and Caltech became mostly Asian students at some point, that would bother me not in the least.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/149 "2015-12-15T22:51:46Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Okay, I was wrong. What I should have said is that Harvey Mudd College has no affirmative action in student admissions, presently. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/150 "2015-12-15T23:06:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Few argue that all humans are equally smart, but rather that black skin is likely not related to intelligence anymore than height, weight, or hair color is. This is quite true, and in US academia there is a very high success rate for dark skinned south asians. Skin coloration does not seem to be particularly correlated with genes that drive intelligence. Nor does skin color seem to be a functional barrier to academic success. If you want to assign reasons for average academic skillset differences among self-identified populations, you’d have to look beyond genes for skin color, or functional bias against skin color. Skin color does not appear to hold back south asians (indian subcontinent, e.g.) from high average success as a self-identified group, nor does it seem to hold back from success any given self-identified black with high academic ability. I find nothing inherent in academia that prevents learning, scoring well on tests or otherwise succeeding simply because one’s skin is dark anymore than I find light skin is of itself a barrier to performing well in power-dependent sports such as sprinting or basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/151 "2015-12-15T23:57:27Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > This is quite true, and in US academia there is a very high success rate for dark skinned south asians. Skin coloration does not seem to be particularly correlated with genes that drive intelligence. This thread is not about that issue. No doubt it’s very interesting, but I kindly suggest you talk about your theories in a different thread; if you want to talk in this thread, please consider reviewing what it’s about. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/152 "2015-12-16T00:12:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The **commentary** you linked to is indeed recent. Congratulations; you’ve cited the fact that some people still mistakenly believe the mismatch theory. And by “some people,” I mean, “the libertarians at the Pope Center who have participated in a successful ideological takeover of the UNC system,” some of the worst miscreants in modern American universities. Insulting a source, while not even trying to deal with the research results that the source documents, is a common logical fallacy, called the [ad hominem fallacy](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html). To state the obvious, you just delivered a classic example of that fallacy. It’s certainly no surprise that you would do so. > [@](#): > > Aheam. You wanted a cite. [Here.](http://www.urban.org/urban-wire/affirmative-action-mismatch-theory-isnt-supported-credible-evidence) I got it by Googling “mismatch theory” and following the first relevant link. In other words, you put zero effort in. No surprise there either. I linked to this article by [Richard Sanders](http://www.popecenter.org/commentaries/article.html?id=3297), you to this one by [Matthew Chingos](http://www.urban.org/urban-wire/affirmative-action-mismatch-theory-isnt-supported-credible-evidence). The Sanders article summarizes the results of a half dozen major, peer-reviewed studies on the affects of affirmative action on mismatch. That’s far from the only research that’s proved that affirmative action leads to mismatch; [there’s a mountain of evidence](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/). The Chingos article primarily cites articles and books written by … Matthew Chingos, and not nearly as many. The two articles of his own that he linked to were not written in peer-reviewed academic journals. So there’s an enormous number of peer-reviewed research articles documenting that mismatch exists and is a problem, at many universities, in many states. How does Chingos respond to those findings? He doesn’t, in the great majority of cases. He doesn’t even mention the great majority of papers that have been written on the topic. He responds solely to research results from California, analyzing the effect of Prop 209 when the voters abolished affirmative action in state universities. What about the numerous studies documenting mismatch in other states? Chingos ignore them entirely, obviously hoping that his readers aren’t familiar with them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/153 "2015-12-16T01:01:15Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Insulting a source, while not even trying to deal with the research results that the source documents, is a common logical fallacy, called the [ad hominem fallacy](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html). > … > In other words, you put zero effort in. No surprise there either. Submitted without comment, except 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/154 "2015-12-16T01:02:33Z")
What makes me really skeptical is the absurd academic language they use to complain. It’s commonly used as a way to make a mountain out of a molehill or distort a situation to ridiculous lengths. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/155 "2015-12-16T01:09:08Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > That article doesn’t say what you claim it says. > > Let’s recall what you said to **UltraVires** : “You already are [getting preferences]! Nearly every selective university gives advantages to underrepresented geographic areas. … The fact that you seemingly didn’t know that people in Appalachia ARE given preference speaks volumes about your ignorance on the issue.” > > The article that you linked doesn’t actually mention any university giving preferences to one geographic area over another, in the same way that affirmative action gives preference to certain races over others. Are you being deliberately obtuse? You clearly have NO idea of how college admissions works (or basic logic). Google geographic preference in college admissions. Read some cites, then make an earnest attempt to comprehend what you just read. The reason people for Appalachia, for example, are given preference is twofold. One, there are few elite school in Appalachia, and most schools have a disproportionate number of applications from locals which means local students are discriminated against in most cases. Two, poor areas like Appalachia have fewer qualified people applying and thus are more likely to be given deference. This happens all the time. It is preference just as it is with racial affirmative action or financial aid. Not sure why you thought you won that argument beyond your just not understanding something very basic and uncontrovertial. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/156 "2015-12-16T01:33:29Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Are you being deliberately obtuse? You clearly have NO idea of how college admissions works (or basic logic). Google geographic preference in college admissions. Read some cites, then make an earnest attempt to comprehend what you just read. The reason people for Appalachia, for example, are given preference is twofold. One, there are few elite school in Appalachia, and most schools have a disproportionate number of applications from locals which means local students are discriminated against in most cases. Two, poor areas like Appalachia have fewer qualified people applying and thus are more likely to be given deference. This happens all the time. You know, **brickbacon** , I wrote this: The article that you linked doesn’t actually mention any university giving preferences to one geographic area over another, in the same way that affirmative action gives preference to certain races over others. Moreover, the article only mentions policies in two states (Texas and Michigan) affecting only public universities. Those states have fine schools, I’m sure, but for you to offer only them as proof that “Nearly every selective university gives advantages to underrepresented geographic areas” is obviously an utterly ridiculous thing to do. Public universities in Texas and Michigan do not make up most selective universities. And lastly, I’m pretty sure that Appalachia is not in Texas or Michigan. You wrote a response to me, which quoted only this part: The article that you linked doesn’t actually mention any university giving preferences to one geographic area over another, in the same way that affirmative action gives preference to certain races over others. Obviously, then you left out this part: Moreover, the article only mentions policies in two states (Texas and Michigan) affecting only public universities. Those states have fine schools, I’m sure, but for you to offer only them as proof that “Nearly every selective university gives advantages to underrepresented geographic areas” is obviously an utterly ridiculous thing to do. Public universities in Texas and Michigan do not make up most selective universities. And lastly, I’m pretty sure that Appalachia is not in Texas or Michigan. The reason why you left that part out is because it’s so obviously fatal to your case. I asked you to provide a cite for your claim that “people in Appalachia ARE given preference”. Thus far, you haven’t provided any evidence that any university anywhere treats people in Appalachia. You can’t provide any such evidence, because you claim is not true. While we’re on the topic of claims that you haven’t provided a cite for. you also said this: > [@brickbacon](#): > > The mismatch theory has largely been debunked, and is not widely accepted in academia. I asked for a cite for that, and you’ve failed to provide one. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/157 "2015-12-16T01:58:35Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > What exactly does it mean for a community “to function”? And is that really something to be desired? Universities have purposes, right? Academics, education, research, that kind of thing. So then it seems safe to say that the university community is functioning if students are learning and if useful research is taking place. But if a crowd of loud, profane, nasty, left-wing protesters [marches into a university library and starts pounding on tables and screaming profanity and racial slurs at white students](http://thetab.com/us/dartmouth/2015/11/14/i-was-proud-to-be-part-of-last-nights-protest-until-it-turned-ugly-978), that deliberately prevents students from learning and doing research in the library. When professors and administrators are forced out of their jobs for trivial reasons or for no reason at all, merely because of the whims of left-wing protesters, that hurts the university’s functioning. When people [get spit on](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/11/10/yale-students-protest-forum-on-free-speech/) because they attended a speech about free speech, that increases friction in the community, which in turns makes the university function less well. And so forth. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/158 "2015-12-16T02:00:31Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > The reason people for Appalachia, for example, are given preference is twofold. One, there are few elite school in Appalachia, and most schools have a disproportionate number of applications from locals which means local students are discriminated against in most cases. I’m not comfortable with using “discriminated” to mean any natural trend that happens to disadvantage someone. It sounds deliberate and insidious. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/159 "2015-12-16T02:13:43Z")
Geographic diversity (some random discussions of the subject): > **[Geographic Diversity as a College Selection Strategy](https://www.collegexpress.com/interests/multicultural/articles/define-campus-diversity/geographic-diversity-college-selection-strategy/)** > > Location. Location. Location. We often hear this buzzword associated with the real estate market and marketing concepts. However, location is often overlooked as a strategic tool when students consider colleges. Search Thousands Of Colleges And... [http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/guidance-office-princeton-answers-1/?\_r=0](http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/guidance-office-princeton-answers-1/?_r=0) > **[Geographic Diversity](https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/geographic-diversity/632239)** > > Just wondering where the geographically advantaged applicants reside. Are they in less competitive/ less represented areas? Does an applicant from Massachusetts have a better/worse chance than someone from the Midwest? > **[Beating The Admissions Odds: 11 Tips Every Applicant Should Know - In Like Me](https://inlikeme.com/beating-the-admissions-odds-11-tips-every-applicant-should-know/)** > > While there’s no getting around the surge in college applications, there are ways for savvy students to improve their admissions odds. It’s hard to know how much any random very selective college bases their admissions on geographic diversity (which would include admitting more from Appalachia), but it’s certainly true that many admissions offices do consider it to be important. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033/160 "2015-12-16T02:40:59Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Here are [some](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/11/12/students-use-blackoncampus-to-describe-personal-experiences-with-racism/75649968/) [first](http://www.npr.org/2015/11/16/456174776/yale-students-speak-out-about-racism-on-campus) [hand](http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-college-microaggression-20151112-story.html) [examples](http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2015/11/12/missouri-protests-embolden-student-leaders-on-other-campuses). So you say that universities are dealing with “white supremacy” and “the inertia of White supremacist policies”. Yet the articles that you link to deal with such pressing matters as: [ul] [li]White people wearing sombreros.[/li][li]There’s a building at Princeton named after Woodrow Wilson, and a college at Yale named after Calhoun.[/li][li]And things like this:“Cynthia Blondeel-Timmerman, a junior, told the speaker she found the term ‘you guys’ offensive.”[/li][li]And: “Katiana Roc says a white student a few seats away from her at West Virginia University got up and moved to the other side of the classroom.”[/li][li]etc…[/li][/ul] I think it should be possible to read the list of articles you link to and conclude, as many people are doing, that it’s all a bunch of hysteria about nothing. How exactly does Katiana Roc know what the white student’s move across the classroom had anything to do with race? Perhaps he moved because it was warmer or cooler on the other side of the classroom, or because he wanted to get closer to a friend, or be able to hear the lecture or see a demonstration better. And that building at Princeton? Well, [there’s no doubt](https://reason.com/archives/2015/11/28/dear-liberals-stop-defending-racist-prog) that Woodrow Wilson, like many progressives, was a racist asshole. He was also a two-term President, America’s leader in WWI, and shaper of numerous laws and policies, some still in effect today for better or worse. He’s an important figure in American history. The protester who said, “we think that you can definitely understand your history without idolizing or turning Wilson into some kind of god, which is essentially what they’ve done”. That’s wrong. A building named after Wilson doesn’t mean that anyone thinks he’s a god or that anyone endorses all or any part of what he did. It’s a historical marker; that’s it. And so forth. Obviously you can keep parading claims of racism on campus all day, but most of what you link to isn’t examples of racism at all, and what there is is quite mild. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-ivy-league-and-other-top-universities-hotbeds-of-racism/740033.md?page=9)