# Are jewish religion and ideology a threat to us all **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416 "2002-03-27T18:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/181 "2002-04-04T07:19:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, maybe Israel could just abolish the right of return so that the appearance of race preference is out of the picture. I don’t see racial attitudes as part of the moral high ground. So, what criteria should they use to provide refuge to people who are liable to be persucuted for belief or descent? Or do you simply oppose the idea of providing refuge? ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/182 "2002-04-04T14:30:27Z")
> [@](#): > > So, what criteria should they use to provide refuge to people who are liable to be persucuted for belief or descent? Well **Tom,** if you want to be a haven from persecution, then be a haven for people that are persecuted. That would be noble. It gives the appearance that they don’t care about persecuted people, just persecuted Jews. It also is at odds with the claim that a Jewish scumbucket murderer would not be given citizenship. He is given citizenship despite the fact that he is a criminal. Why? Because he is from a Jewish family. If that was any other person, do you really think Israel would shield him from the death penalty? The only thing that saved Sheinbein from extradition was his ancestry. Israel never infered that they were shielding him based on objection to the death penalty. They shieled him using the right of return. **Tom** , you are still missing the point. Racism is counter productive for the race of man kind. The point that you and others are missing is this; Racism is holding one group of people above another, holding them in higher regard. You don’t have to do anything hateful. All you have to do is show preference for a group of people. The hate, ill will and abuse will grow from there. I don’t have any hatred in my heart for Jews. I wish they could find a way to see that their own racist actions has a hand in breeding the contempt that has been directed at them. Racism is not hate. But hate will most certainly grow from it. Any group that indulges in racism is a threat to peace. We all want peace right? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/183 "2002-04-04T15:08:53Z")
> [@](#): > > It gives the appearance that they don’t care about persecuted people, just persecuted Jews. > [@](#): > > Racism is counter productive for the race of man kind. The point that you and others are missing is this; Racism is holding one group of people above another, holding them in higher regard. You don’t have to do anything hateful. All you have to do is show preference for a group of people. So it’s all or nothing? History is irrelevant to your blanket views on who has the right to do anything? Despite the desire to provide shelter to a _specific_ group, with an _actual_ history of being persecuted, they have no right to establish the rules, simply because it violates some nebulous goal of yours to “be fair” in some non-existent “ideal” world. OK. And in the real word, when they have provided shelter to _anyone/everyone_ and have eventually been outpopulated in their own country and that country then turns and starts the persecutions all over again, I’m sure that you will feel very bad that it didn’t work out. The only destructive “ideals” I see in this thread are yours. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/184 "2002-04-04T15:39:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > It also is at odds with the claim that a Jewish scumbucket murderer would not be given citizenship. He is given citizenship despite the fact that he is a criminal. Why? Because he is from a Jewish family. If that was any other person, do you really think Israel would shield him from the death penalty? The only thing that saved Sheinbein from extradition was his ancestry. Israel never infered that they were shielding him based on objection to the death penalty. They shieled him using the right of return. \*\* No, with Sheinbein that wasn’t the case. Sheinbein isn’t considered an Israeli because he’s from a Jewish family…he’s considered an Israeli because he’s from an Israeli family. His father is an Israeli citizen who moved to Maryland. Sheinbein is legally an Israeli because he’s the son of one. As an analogy, if you were to move to Mexico, and had kids there, those kids would be US citizens, even though they were born in Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![berdollos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@berdollos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/berdollos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/185 "2002-04-04T19:01:42Z")
disproportionate attention to Jews, a small percentage of the world’s population. This fact belies his claim to dispationate objectivity. If his dispationate objectivity has led to this great attention to Jews, it must be because of our great importance, which, as I said before, makes anti-Semitism very flattering indeed. Where else would I find descriptions of my people’s influence and importance, certainly not in the history of the last century, during which we have been kicked around much of the time. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/186 "2002-04-04T19:51:55Z")
**Sweet Willy** - your extradition example is bunk. 1. Scores of countries have laws that forbid extradition of a citizen to another country; 2. Indeed, many countries are forbidden to extradite even non-citizens. This, indeed, is so well known that it is constantly used as a plot device in movies (“OK, we hit the bank in the morning, and by evening we are on a flight to sunny Brazil, with no extradition treaty.”) 3. Most countries consider you a citizen if your parents are a citizen, particularly where, as here, the child was a minor at the time. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/187 "2002-04-04T22:22:24Z")
OK. I have had enough of this. I am taking off for a long week end and shall forget this debate for a while. Let me leave you with this; Until the Jewish religion and the nation of Israel open their eyes to the racism in their policy, you will continue to be persecuted by those who will hate you for it. I wish it were not so, for I love all people, but history does not lie. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/188 "2002-04-04T22:40:41Z")
Well, maybe history doesn’t… Anyway, how about you admit the simple fact that you are anti-Jew and that alone colours everything you’ve said on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/189 "2002-04-04T22:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Until the Jewish religion and the nation of Israel open their eyes to the racism in their policy, you will continue to be persecuted by those who will hate you for it. Until you provide something more concrete and more coherent than “it’s bad” to characterize your viewpoints, you are going to persuade no one that you actually understand what you are saying. I don’t join those who have concluded that you are anti-semitic, but I certainly think you have come into this discussion with a knee-jerk reaction based on a preconceived notion of the world (about which you have undertaken no actual thought). You simply have a mental litmus test based on phrases; if a phrase matches _your_ “color bar” it is (in your limited view) racist. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/190 "2002-04-05T00:17:28Z")
Well, _I’m_ just glad that Willy’s half-assed notions have received a fair but ultimately just dismissal from just about every poster on this thread. A victory for critical thinking… Hey, aren’t _Jews_ good at critical thinking? Holy Illuminati! We’ve been infiltrated! ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/191 "2002-04-05T01:01:15Z")
Um, Sweet Willy, you really didn’t answer my question. You know, the one about the logic behind your statement about my request for hard evidence? You seem to be terribly ignorant concerning what the Jewish religion actually teaches. Hatred is not on the top of the list, nor is it on the list. We are not taught to hate those who are different, at least as far as I know. True, there are surely some Biblical passages that could be brought up, but Judaism is past such a violent mentality. Once again, I ask for some evidence. Until you provide it, Sweet Willy, I’m afraid your argument is on shaky ground. ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/192 "2002-04-05T01:05:51Z")
Oh, and I resent your suggestion that the persecution of the Jewish people was somehow deserved. I guess the Holocaust was just those terrible racist hateful Jews getting what they deserved? Come now. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/193 "2002-04-05T03:28:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* Until the Jewish religion and the nation of Israel open their eyes to the racism in their policy, \*\* Well, I guess **Sweet Willy** didn’t mean it when he retracted his statement about the Jewish religion being racist earlier. > [@](#): > > \*\* > you will continue to be persecuted by those who will hate you for it. I wish it were not so, for I love all people, but history does not lie. \*\* So, what it comes down to is this: **Sweet Willy** believes that the Jewish religion is composed of Israeli immigration policy. Because (in his perception) the Israeli immigration policy is racist, therefore, the entire Jewish religion is racist. He furthermore compounds that by stating that this is the reason Jews have been persecuted over the years. Never mind the fact that the policy in question was formulated in 1948 and the Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years before that. Never mind the fact that I asked him to provide **any** proof that the Jewish religion is racist and he hasn’t produced anything. Never mind the fact that he says that the Israeli immigration policy is based on “jewish ideaology,” but has yet to produce a single Jewish text showing the link between the policy in question and Jewish ideaology. Good riddance! Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/194 "2002-04-05T04:05:11Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** **Sweet Willy** , please do not reproduce entire copyrighted articles on the SDMB. You may quote briefly from copyrighted material, or you may link to pages on other web sites, as I have done for you in the two posts above. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/195 "2002-04-05T13:59:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* Until the Jewish religion and the nation of Israel open their eyes to the racism in their policy, you will continue to be persecuted by those who will hate you for it. I wish it were not so, for I love all people, but history does not lie. \*\* And even if we did bend entirely to your will, you and your ilk would _still_ persecute and hate us. Since we can’t win your love, or even your tolerance, we will, by God defend ourselves. The phrase “Never again” had never been more appropriate. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/196 "2002-04-06T18:30:06Z")
ok…so what we have here is a “race” of people who have undergone genocidal attacks in recent history, living on land which was set aside for them, who enjoy rights and privileges which are not allowed to others living in the area. These extra-legal rights are based solely on their membership in a certain ‘elect’ tribe. Tell me **SW** , are we talking about Israelis or Navajos? ---
**Author:** ![Jantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@Jantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jantom)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2002, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/197 "2002-04-06T23:07:15Z")
The only reason jews hate everyone is that everyone hates jews. Orion is just hating them more, building up anger, and soon enough, they’ll strike. So, Orion, I sugjest u stop before the jews take over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/198 "2002-04-07T00:03:34Z")
Careful you don’t slip on your own drool, jan. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/199 "2002-04-07T00:07:03Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** \*\* Bryan Ekers\*\*, please watch the personal insults in GD. ---
**Author:** ![berdollos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@berdollos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/berdollos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/200 "2002-04-07T17:09:29Z")
I, too, have often found that it is very good to let go of positions and arguments that would otherwise take up too much of my energy and reduce the quality of life for me and those around me. This applies to any position on any issue. Best wishes, Bob P.S. Yesterday I refrained from getting into a big argument on unions at our university - and was able to enjoy lunch as a result! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416.md?page=11)