# Are jewish religion and ideology a threat to us all **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416 "2002-03-27T18:26:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/101 "2002-03-29T19:14:29Z")
Since **Sweet Willy** is now on record as claiming that Jewish religion and ideology are a threat to everyone, I don’t think I have anything more to contribute. Well, except this: [Ton-Ton Macoute!](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003CMQ/qid=1017429069/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5254532-8433503) is a completely phenomenal album by Johnny Jenkins. His cover of Dr. John’s “Walk on Gilded Splinters” is truly a delight every time I hear it, and the album features some amazing Duane Allman riffs. If you like Nawlins sounds, I strongly recommend its purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/102 "2002-03-29T19:24:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\ ***Jackmanii** , I did not bring the immigration policy of other counrties into this. \*\* Really? Reread your statements. You made a comparison between Israeli treatment of Palestinians and U.S. treatment of refugees that has little bearing on reality and serves merely to demonstrate how one-sided your thinking is on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/103 "2002-03-29T20:17:03Z")
Sweet Willy, your points really are absurd. Let us think this out logically, shall we? Do you really think that Judaism is a racist religion. Tell me, what evidence do you have, precisely? I note that you repeatedly return to Israel’s imigration policy. You suggest that Israel excludes Muslims and Arabs who are trying to enter the country. Statistics, please. Oh, and since you think Israel is so positively racist, you must surely have some evidence of attacks on the Muslims currently living in Israel. What? Nothing? Much to your surprise, Sweet Willy, you may find that the Muslims are actually treated with some amount of humanity. Oh, and I notice that you seem to fear that Israel is going to spontaneously drop the bomb on innocent people out of racism. Gee, we have LOADS of evidence that this will happen. Sure, theoretically, Israel could, but why would they? I have the feeling that you are rather racist yourself, Sweet Willy. How can you point your finger at a religion that has been through the Holocaust and has lived through terrible violence since the creation of its own state. Really. Sure, this doesn’t make racism okay, but it makes finger-pointing virtually useless. For every so-called act of racism you can come up with that it Jewish, many more can be found that were against the Jews. Judaism is not a racist religion. We do not go into our temples and recite our desire to kill all those different from us. We do not suggest that there is some great punishment in store for those who are not our religion. I admit, we do mention our hope that some day the entire world will turn in awe toward our God, but this is simply a hope, that all religions have (though some suggest this should be achieved through violence and some do not.) Now, I’m sure you can find some racist act in the Torah, but, Judaism has evolved from such actions. We no longer support them, but in fact despise racist action. So, what evidence do you have, Sweet Willy? What logic is behind your seemingly racist comments? ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/104 "2002-03-29T21:55:17Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## In almost every state, immigration is left to the discretion of the state. The US does it…to legally immigrate, you need to prove that you’re healthy, will contribute to the society, and won’t be a drain on it. And, even if you fulfill the requirements, only a limited number of people are allowed in each year. . > > Yes and any people living here illegally are the targets of military strikes and we regularly bulldoze their places of dwelling and strip them of any and all human rights. NOT. We work vigorously with refugees to make a place for them here where thay can and do become productive citizens without regard to their race / religion. **Jackmanii,** Again, my comments were based on _someone elses_ comparison of immigration policies. You are right. There is no comparison. Stop twisting my statements to suit yourself. > [@](#): > > Sweet Willy, your points really are absurd. Let us think this out logically, shall we? Do you really think that Judaism is a racist religion. Tell me, what evidence do you have, precisely? . Jewish race and religion are inseperable. The religion and the nation of Israel bestowe special privilidges to people based upon theire rac. It doesn’t matter if you are born at the north pole to an Eskimo father and a Jewish mother. You are still a Jew. It doesn’t matter if you even believe in God, you are still considered one of the chosen people of God and given special consideration by people who don’t even know you based completely on your race. That my friend is racism. Maybe you don’t see it that way. I do. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/105 "2002-03-29T22:24:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > **Jackmanii,** Again, my comments were based on _someone elses_ comparison of immigration policies. You are right. There is no comparison. Stop twisting my statements to suit yourself. > \*\* Your truly amazing state of denial aside, I will take this as a retraction, and a welcome one at that. “‘Cos little Willy, Willy won’t go home But you can’t push Willy round Willy won’t go, try tellin’ everybody but, oh no Little Willy, Willy won’t go home” _“Little Willy” - The Sweet_ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/106 "2002-03-30T01:13:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > I would like to comment, to all those who make sarcastic comments in a thread like this, that I don’t think they’re very funny. But they are effective. > [@](#): > > The Saudi official press recently published an article describing the Passover celebration as requiring the blood of young Christian or Moslem babies. This was “officially” retracted as an “error” some time later – probably in a short blurb on page 27. The blood-libel is still very real, the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” (a forged document that purports to be a Jewish publication, full of horrible concepts that are thus attributed to Jews) is still believed to be true. Sorry, but I don’t think this is a realm for sarcastic responses. Frankly it is the realm par excellance for the sarcastic response, if only becuase humiliating these kind of people is often the best response. Ah yes, in re the issue of articles, rather than “speculating” needlessly, why not just ask? Page 3, top left column, Editor’s Editorial on “world affairs” – I’d give a web citation but since it’s in Arabic and not an image, it would be pointless. However, for a rather more accurate, and yet more disturbing --like I’ve said, the truth is bad enough without speculation-- see these articles. I checked them against the articles and they are accurate. > **[Saudi paper regrets Jewish pastry myth](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/22/israel)** > > A Saudi newspaper has sacked a columnist who wrote that Jews use the blood of Christian or Muslim children in pastries for the Purim religious festival. [http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-032002blood.story?coll=la-home-todays-times](http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-032002blood.story?coll=la-home-todays-times) BTW in re the Muslim opinion poll which is oft cited here, see this: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5708-2002Mar22.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5708-2002Mar22.html) [http://www.ncpp.org/islamic\_world.htm](http://www.ncpp.org/islamic_world.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/107 "2002-03-30T01:14:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > **Jackmanii,** Again, my comments were based on _someone elses_ comparison of immigration policies. You are right. There is no comparison. Stop twisting my statements to suit yourself. > > Jewish race and religion are inseperable. The religion and the nation of Israel bestowe special privilidges to people based upon theire rac. It doesn’t matter if you are born at the north pole to an Eskimo father and a Jewish mother. You are still a Jew. It doesn’t matter if you even believe in God, you are still considered one of the chosen people of God and given special consideration by people who don’t even know you based completely on your race. That my friend is racism. Maybe you don’t see it that way. I do. \*\* First and foremost: I generally use the word racist in reference to someone who is against a specific group (note also that I am, in this case, using it to refer to any group and not just a specific race.) This being so, I admit that you are right in the regard that, in a sense, Judaism is racist. However, such an argument is very dangerous because all religions are racist in the sense that they believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Now, in terms of Judaism being a race, and so separating it from other religions, technically, it isn’t a race. Why? The reason is that the Jewish religion is capable of gaining new members outside of the current race. True, if your mother is Jewish, by Jews you are considered Jewish. This is a fact. I can not pretend that this is not true, for then I would become a liar, which is never a useful label for one who plans to make a point. However, you must consider also the fact that such a system will generally only hold up for a certain number of generations. Let us say that a Jewish woman marries a Catholic, and decides to raise the children catholic. 100 generations later, no one is going to remember that technically, the descendents of this couple are technically. It probably wouldn’t take 100 generations either. And so, it really doesn’t make such a large difference, as the arrogance is not exclusive to Judaism, either in the realm of race or religion. As for Judaism being a threat, one would have to assume that such arrogance would cause Jews to gain a prejudice for other religions. This might occur, but it is no more likely to occur in Judaism than in most other religions (unless there are many religions unknown to me that view themselves as inferior.) So, Sweet Willy, what point are you trying to make? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/108 "2002-03-30T02:47:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > \*\* > **Jackmanii,** Again, my comments were based on _someone elses_ comparison of immigration policies. You are right. There is no comparison. Stop twisting my statements to suit yourself. > \*\* It seems you are referring to me here, as you quoted two of my posts above. If you look closely (okay, not closely at all, if you **read** what I wrote) you will notice that I was not comparing anyone’s immigration policies, I was explaining to you the historical reason for the Right of Return law. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/109 "2002-03-30T15:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > “‘Cos little Willy, Willy won’t go home > But you can’t push Willy round > Willy won’t go, try tellin’ everybody but, oh no > Little Willy, Willy won’t go home” > > “Little Willy” - The Sweet Yeah **Jackmanii,** good idea. Resort to taunting. Grow up. > [@](#): > > So, Sweet Willy, what point are you trying to make? I am lending a degree of support to the OP. “Is Jewish Ideology a threat to us all?” > [@](#): > > First and foremost: I generally use the word racist in reference to someone who is against a specific group (note also that I am, in this case, using it to refer to any group and not just a specific race.) This being so, I admit that you are right in the regard that, in a sense, Judaism is racist. I am glad you see this. Racism is actually not something done _against_ a specific group. Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race above another. Lots of religions believe themselves to be closer to God than others but the Jewish faith takes into account your race, your heritage, when making this consideration. I don’t know exactly how superior this makes Jewish people feel but I grant that others may perceive themselves inferior when faced with the notion that thier neighbor was born a “chosen one” and unfortunately no such inherent rights to glory were bestowed upon them. It is a very curious mix of race and religion. > [@](#): > > . However, you must consider also the fact that such a system will generally only hold up for a certain number of generations Any idea what that certain number is? It seems to be holding up just fine in the year 2002 AD. I would suggest that it will hold up for as long as people subscribe to the ideology. > [@](#): > > as the arrogance is not exclusive to Judaism, either in the realm of race or religion. Agreed. Jewish are defintiely not the only people who attempt to legitimize racism. > [@](#): > > As for Judaism being a threat, one would have to assume that such arrogance would cause Jews to gain a prejudice for other religions. This might occur, but it is no more likely to occur in Judaism than in most other religions Yes. And when the Vatican sees fit to arm itself with nuclear weapons, it then will also be a threat to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/110 "2002-03-30T16:50:11Z")
In terms of whether or not such a system of Jewish heritage will always hold up, look at the Catholic Church. Now, surely some Catholics today have Jewish heritage, but it is so difficult to trace such things back to such a great extent that it is almost pointless. True, with our better understanding of genetics, soon we may be able to trace back further, but what difference would it make? Why should you care? Some Jews (note I said some, for not all Jews support this concept in all cases, but many do) may believe someone of Jewish heritage to be Jewish regardless of their beliefs, but why on Earth does it matter to you? Such people are not seeking out these people of Jewish decent and forcing them to be Jewish, nor seeking them out to provide special privaleges. True, some privaleges are given, but these are mainly limited to imigration to Israel and conversion to Judaism. Also, one must generally already be seeking out such privaleges to take advantage of them, and how many cases do you know of where a person who doesn’t believe in Judaism in the least took advantage of this? Once again, I fail to see how it truly makes a gigantic difference. Also, in terms of Israel being a threat in terms of its possession of nuclear weapons, how stupid do you think Israel is? If Israel were to wage nuclear war based soley on a racist mentality (and what evidence do you have that Jews would support this?) it would probably result in its own destruction. Surprisingly perhaps to you, Israel does not consist of a bunch of Jewish radicals who want to destroy all other races (as a matter of fact, I have never myself encountered such a radical. Maybe you could find some statistics on how many Jews want to destroy all other racists.) Israel is a patch of civilazation in an area of the world where civilization seems to be a rarity. Civilized countries generally know better than to wage nuclear war. So, remind me again why precisely you view Israel and Judaism as a threat? I seem to be confused. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/111 "2002-03-30T18:05:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know exactly how superior this makes Jewish people feel but I grant that others may perceive themselves inferior when faced with the notion that thier neighbor was born a “chosen one” and unfortunately no such inherent rights to glory were bestowed upon them. I find it interesting that you need to resort to a total corruption of the Jewish beliefs regarding their “chosen” status in order to make your case. The concept of being chosen in Judaism has rather more to do with God’s choosing them to present His views of rectitude to the world. It is the imposition of an obligation, not a bestowing of glory. It is a subject that has been discussed several times on this MB (most recently in just the last couple of days). There is no exaltation of Jewish people as being inherently better than anyone else in any literature that I have seen, so applying it here appears to be simply the act of taking the word “chosen” out of context to make a false point. As to “Jewish ideology,” I have seen no statement regarding what such a thing would be. Is it the Jewish penchant for universal education? That certainly seems threatening. Given that Israel is a parliamentary democracy that has, in the last few years, given power to different parties alternating between those who sought to provide concessions for peace and those who sought to enforce peace with military might, it seems difficult to discern some single ideology to oppose. As recently as two weeks ago, members of the Jewish military publicly announced that they opposed actions being carried out in the occupied territories. So much for the single-minded ideology of Israelis (or Jews). (Of course, that was prior to the current wave of bombings–all of which have been carried out by Yasser Arafat’s own party while he “claimed” to be willing to meet to negotiate a truce. Those sorts of actions are liable to have united Israeli opinion in the way that the WTC attacks have generally united the fractious citizens of the U.S.) Until you actually lay out this “Jewish ideology” that you purport to believe in (without resorting to corrupting Jewish teachings based on a misreading of the word “chosen”), then your point appears to be simply that you would like to cast stones at some group and they are currently visible targets. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/112 "2002-03-30T18:23:06Z")
**Mandos** , I truely appreciate your civility in this debate. Some are less than that in addressing the possible and fundamental flaws in ideals that they hold dear. > [@](#): > > True, with our better understanding of genetics, soon we may be able to trace back further, but what difference would it make? Why should you care? Some Jews (note I said some, for not all Jews support this concept in all cases, but many do) may believe someone of Jewish heritage to be Jewish regardless of their beliefs, but why on Earth does it matter to you? It matters to me because it is an attempt to create a divide based on someones idea of when and where genealogy starts and stops. We are all human beings. Homosapiens. People. History teaches us that in our attempts to seperate ourselves from our fellow humans beings, based on race, we have secondarily created hostility and hate out of the most noble causes. The bottom line is that racism is a dead end street. Your race does not make you any better or worse as a human being. This is by no means limited to Jewish ideals. That just happens to be the topic at hand. > [@](#): > > . Also, in terms of Israel being a threat in terms of its possession of nuclear weapons, how stupid do you think Israel is? Only the United States has ever used weapons of mass destruction in warfare. Others saw the utter destruction and have armed themselves with nuclear weapons. Did they just think they were cool so we should get some? No. They are wholely intended as a _threat_. How would you characterize the nuclear weapons held by any nation? I consider Israel an exceptional threat due to the matter - of - fact racist principles they harbor. While the principles are not so harmful in and of themselves, you must consider that it is an atmosphere, an ideology(racism), that has historically proven to bring out the absolute worst in human nature. > [@](#): > > If Israel were to wage nuclear war based soley on a racist mentality (and what evidence do you have that Jews would support this?) it would probably result in its own destruction. There is significant history to support war based on racist mentality. It probably would result in the destrustion of Israel. I try to consider whom else might get destroyed in the process. > [@](#): > > Israel does not consist of a bunch of Jewish radicals who want to destroy all other races I would not make that characterization. > [@](#): > > So, remind me again why precisely you view Israel and Judaism as a threat? I view Judaism as a threat because the religion does promote racism. I view Israel as a threat because it endorses and includes Jewish religious ideals in the body of its national policy and maintains a significant military force in support of such policy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/113 "2002-03-30T19:26:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I view Israel as a threat because it endorses and includes Jewish religious ideals in the body of its national policy So you continue to assert without providing any evidence that there even _are_ such “Jewish religious ideals” much less that they have been incorporated into Israeli law. The sole “Jewish ideal” that I can see is the ability to provide a haven for a religious group with a history of over 2,000 years of persecution. Do you have a specific reason to deny these people refuge as a point of law? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/114 "2002-03-30T19:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Some are less than that in addressing the possible and fundamental flaws in ideals that they hold dear. I’m remembering something about planks and specks. Or maybe it was kettles and pots. Whichever, it’s usually pretty silly to deride others for stubbornness and refuse to even consider the possibility one might oneself be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/115 "2002-03-30T19:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > There is no exaltation of Jewish people as being inherently better than anyone else in any literature that I have seen, so applying it here appears to be simply the act of taking the word “chosen” out of context to make a false point. > . **Tom** , Have you read this thread? I know you have. Twice here is stated the Israeli rights of return. It does exalt Jews as being prefered citizens. It does make exaltation in the name of heritage in black and white print. It is racist in its intent. I have yet to find any area of relent with you **Tom**. I don’t expect it here. I think I have said all I can say in explaining my POV. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/116 "2002-03-30T20:59:54Z")
Aside from your asssertion that it is “bad,” **Sweet Willy** , you have provided no actual reasons why providing a refuge for a persecuted group is evil. Since we seem to have established that no other group is excluded (barring any _evidence_ that may appear in the future) you simply seem to be asserting that no group should be allowed to provide refuge for people like themselves. You may claim that is some sort of “exaltation,” but, given your misunderstanding of the phrase “chosen people,” your failure to identify any specifically “Jewish” ideology, and your refusal to spell out an actual reason why providing refuge is wrong, it would appear that you are simply basing your objections on a gut feeling that anything done by any group that includes religious belief must be “bad.” Not very persuasive, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Vulcanus\_DX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e79b87/32.png) [@Vulcanus\_DX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vulcanus_DX)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/117 "2002-03-30T21:20:32Z")
A question about the things that Shahak writes ? (I have read parts of what he writes) > [@](#): > > "\*\*Does not their Talmud say, and do not their rabbis write, that it is no sin to kill if a Jew kills a heathen, but it is a sin if he kills a brother in Israel? It is no sin if he does not keep his oath to a heathen. Therefore, to steal and rob, as they do with their usury, from a heathen is a divine service. For they hold that they cannot be too hard on us nor sin against us, because they are of the noble blood and circumcised saints; we, however, are cursed goyim. And they are the masters of the world, and we are their servants, yea, their cattle… \*\* > > Unlike his fellow Israelis, however, Professor Shahak is deeply troubled by this peculiar atmosphere. Whereas the Jews around him take it for granted that the goyim on whom they depend for economic, military, and diplomatic support are too stupid ever to figure out what the Jews think about them and say about them behind their backs and plan to do to them when they can, and too sheeplike ever to take effective action if they do figure it out, he worries. He remembers that the Romans figured it out, and they consequently sacked Jerusalem and ended their cult in Palestine. He remembers that the Germans figured it out, and that’s why he became an involuntary tenant in a concentration camp. He’s worried that if his fellow Jews continue behaving as they always have, they will get themselves into some really serious trouble – again. > > In particular, Professor Shahak is concerned about the behavior of those of his people who adhere to “Judaism”. He is not one of these himself, and so he is able to look with some degree of objectivity at the mixture of superstition, Jewish chauvinism, and hatred of non-Jews which makes up the Jewish religion and its sacred writings. He deplores traditional Jewish teachings, not only because of the danger that some new Martin Luther will come along and spill the beans to the Gentiles, but because of the spiritually debilitating effect these teachings have had on the Jews themselves. Of the world of medieval Jewry in Europe, the world of the ghetto and the shtetl which modern Jewish writers refer to in euphoric tones as a world of quaint tradition and piety, Shahak says: “It was a world sunk in the most abject superstition, fanaticism, and ignorance …” > > He cites a number of specific instances of the ways in which Jewish religious authorities have kept their flocks under control. In general, **…the rabbis have taught their fellow Jews that their Gentile neighbors are spiritually and morally unclean; that they are subhuman, on a level with the beasts of the field; and that they hate Jews and must be hated in return. Jews are taught that the Christian religion is a religion fit only for animals, and that its founder, Jesus, was the son of a prostitute and is presently immersed in a pit of boiling excrement in hell . > .** > > **Among the Hassidim (Hebrew for “pious ones”) all of these teachings are kept current. Shahak points out that a central thesis of the Hassidic doctrine is that only Jews are human beings, and that the universe was created for them alone. Non-Jews were created only to be used by Jews.** Although this teaching about the subhumanity of Gentiles is most open and explicit among the bearded, sidelocked, black-hatted Orthodox Jews that one sees in Jewish strongholds such as New York City, it comes from the core of Jewish tradition and is accepted to a greater or lesser degree by all pious Jews. It is, for example, a specific tenet of the Jewish Defense League and is cited in the membership handbook for that group. > > Another example of Jewish deception given by Professor Shahak concerns the etymology of the Yiddish word for a Gentile girl, shiksa. He cites the popular English-language book “The Joys of Yiddish” (New York, 1968), by Leo Rosten, which tells its readers that shiksa comes from the Hebrew word sheqetz, meaning “blemish”. Writes Shahak, "This is a barefaced lie, as every speaker of Hebrew knows. The Megiddo Modern Hebrew-English Dictionary, published in Israel, correctly defines sheqetz as follows: ‘unclean animal; loathsome creature, abomination…’ " > > “…[T]he Halakhah, that is the legal system of classical Judaism – as practiced by practically all Jews from the 9th century to the end of the 18th and as maintained to this very day in the form of Orthodox Judaism – is based primarily on the Babylonian Talmud. However, because of the unwieldy complexity of the legal disputations recorded in the Talmud, more manageable codifications of talmudic law became necessary … The most authoritative code, widely used to date as a handbook, is the Shulhan 'Arukh…” > > \*\*"According to the Jewish religion, the murder of a Jew is a capital offense and one of the three most heinous sins (the other two being idolatry and adultery). Jewish religious courts and secular authorities are commanded to punish, even beyond the limits of the ordinary administration of justice, anyone guilty of murdering a Jew … When the victim is a Gentile, the position is quite different. A Jew who murders a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, not punishable by a court. To cause indirectly the death of a Gentile is no sin at all. \*\* > > **Then Shahak gives us a rabbi’s answer to an Israeli soldier who has asked whether or not it is proper to kill Arab women and children. In his answer the rabbi quotes from the Talmud: "The best of the Gentiles – kill him; the best of snakes – dash out its brains."** > > Perhaps even more offensive are the Jewish beliefs on sexual matters. Shahak writes: > > \*\*"Sexual intercourse between a married Jewish woman and any man other than her husband is a capital offense for both parties, and one of the three most heinous sins. The status of Gentile women is very different. The Halakhah presumes all Gentiles to be utterly promiscuous and the verse “whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue [of semen] is like the issue of horses” is applied to them… Therefore, the concept of adultery does not apply to intercourse between a Jewish man and a Gentile woman; rather the Talmud equates such intercourse to the sin of bestiality… \*\* > > \*\*"If a Jew finds property whose probable owner is Jewish, the finder is strictly enjoined to make a positive effort to return his find by advertising it publicly. In contrast, the Talmud and all the early rabbinical authorities not only allow a Jewish finder to appropriate an article lost by a Gentile, but actually forbid him or her to return it… > > “It is forbidden to defraud a Jew by selling or buying at an unreasonable price. However, “Fraud does not apply to Gentiles, for it is written: ‘Do not defraud each man his brother’…””\*\* > > \*\*How have the Jews managed to keep teachings of this sort concealed from the Gentiles among whom they live? The truth of the matter is that they have not always been able to do so. Luther was not the only Christian scholar who learned Hebrew, peered into the Talmud, and was horrified by what he saw. Sometimes the Jews were able to bribe the Christian authorities to overlook such things, but throughout the later Middle Ages there were prohibitions and burnings of talmudic literature by outraged popes and bishops. The Jews developed a clever system of double bookkeeping to circumvent such “persecution”. They modified or deleted the offending passages from new editions of the Talmud, and they made up a separate compendium – Talmudic Omissions, or in Hebrew Hesronot Shas – which circulated surreptitiously among the rabbis. In Israel today, feeling cocky enough to dispense with most such deceptions, the Jews are putting the passages which formerly had been omitted or modified back into the latest editions of the Talmud or the Shulhan 'Arukh in their original form. They are still careful with translations into Gentile tongues, however. Professor Shahak gives an example: > > "In 1962 a part of the\*\* Maimonidean Code\*\* … the so-called Book of Knowledge, which contains the most basic rules of Jewish faith and practice, was published in Jerusalem in a bilingual edition, with the English translation facing the Hebrew text. The latter has been restored to its original purity, and the command to exterminate Jewish infidels appears in it in full: “It is a duty to exterminate them with one’s own hands.” In the English translation this is somewhat softened to: “It is a duty to take active measures to destroy them.” But then the Hebrew text goes on to specify the prime examples of “infidels"who must be exterminated: “Such as Jesus of Nazareth and his pupils, and Tzadoqand Baitos [the founders of the Sadducean sect] and their pupils, may the name of the wicked rot.” Not one word of this appears in the English text on the facing page (78a). And, even more significant, in spite of the wide circulation of this book among scholars in the English-speaking countries, not one of them has, as far as I know, protested against this glaring deception.” How present is this “attitude” among religious jews today ? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/118 "2002-03-30T21:35:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sweet Willy \* > **I view Judaism as a threat because the religion does promote racism.** Remember back on page one when you were whining that there was no evidence that you were an anti-Semite? That’s for providing it so clearly. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/119 "2002-03-30T21:39:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > > Remember back on page one when you were whining that there was no evidence that you were an anti-Semite? > > That’s for providing it so clearly. > \*\* Er…“ **Thanks** for providing such clear evidence.” ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416/120 "2002-03-30T22:08:33Z")
Main Entry: an·ti-Sem·i·tism Pronunciation: "an-ti-'se-m&-"ti-z&m, "an-"tI- Function: noun Date: 1882 : hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group - an·ti-Se·mit·ic /-s&-'mi-tik/ adjective - an·ti-Sem·ite /-'se-"mIt/ noun **Fenris,** I certainly do not advocate hostility or discrimination against Jews. I have made every effort to present my point of view without advocating anything of the sort. If you believe my fundamentals against racism are hostile, suit yourself. Might as well call me anti - white, anti - black, anti - catholic, etc. etc. etc. I don’t view such matters with much regard to what group of people it is coming from. It reeks from any direction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-jewish-religion-and-ideology-a-threat-to-us-all/100416.md?page=7)