# Are Kids Getting Better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086 "2011-07-15T01:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/1 "2011-07-15T01:12:15Z")
Compared to say twenty or thirty years ago are kids “better” in the sense of being more behaved, less rebellious, and whatnot? Consider the following: crime rates have gone down across the board for the last twenty years and while this generation is quite socially liberal it does not riot or rebel as violenty as say the Boomers forty years ago or as cynical and nilhistic as the Xers twenty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Lil\_Ol\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@Lil\_Ol\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lil_Ol_Lady)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/2 "2011-07-15T01:21:00Z")
I think kids are more realistic about things than people like me were. I left a midwest background to go to Greenwich Village and become a playwright. What was I thinking? I could’ve gone to Princeton or Columbia at my parent’s expense, but I chose not to, because that would be giving in to them. In the mid 60s kids were full of rebellion, coz there was so much to rebel against. Life sucked if you weren’t the norm. And if you weren’t the norm and tried to join the norm, then you hated yourself for not being you and you were miserable. Now I look at kids and they are so much more realistic than I was. I do think people are a lot more self centered now than in my day. And part of that is we weren’t as materialistic as there wasn’t a lot to own. Now we have gadget after gadget and designer labels on stupid things like t-shirts. I’m sure if the goods now, were available back then, we would’ve been every bit as materialistic. Society was a lot ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/3 "2011-07-15T01:30:25Z")
Kids are less rebellious, but I don’t think there’s a big connection between rebelliousness and violent crime. You have to have a conscience to be 1960s-style rebellious, but it takes an idiot with no self-control to mug someone for $14. Fortunately there seem to be fewer idiots these days, maybe because such a higher proportion of them are in prison than before. The problem with kids today (geez, listen to me) is their expectation to be entertained and generally hand-held through life. I feel this is a byproduct of the total commercialization of the kid experience. Kids get most of their information from TV shows and commercials and they judge the rest of their life experience by the commercial standard - i.e. the average kid is smarter than his parents, never has to study or do chores, solves all his problems in 22 minutes, is attractive, wears stylish clothes and makeup, has a great place to live, etc. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/4 "2011-07-15T01:41:48Z")
Nope. They are incredibly selfish. Just like they’ve always been. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/5 "2011-07-15T02:21:49Z")
Today’s kids are horrible. When I walk through the local mall, I’m often shocked by hearing children not only say “no” to a parent, but even swear at their mothers. They have zero respect for authority, are uncouth, loud, and generally unpleasant. That shit flat out did not fly when and where I grew up. I’m 45 years old, outweigh my mother by well over 100 pounds, and I have no doubt that were I to swear at her today she’d rattle my teeth so fast I’d never even see it coming…and I’d deserve it. When a parent tells a minor child to jump, the acceptable responses are : "Yes, Ma’am/Sir (as appropriate), or “How high, Ma’am/Sir?” “No” is not an option. Parents just don’t discipline their children anymore. The world was a much more pleasant place in my day. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/6 "2011-07-15T02:24:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Today’s kids are horrible. When I walk through the local mall, I’m often shocked by hearing children not only say “no” to a parent, but even swear at their mothers. They have zero respect for authority, are uncouth, loud, and generally unpleasant. That shit flat out did not fly when and where I grew up. I’m 45 years old, outweigh my mother by well over 100 pounds, and I have no doubt that were I to swear at her today she’d rattle my teeth so fast I’d never even see it coming…and I’d deserve it. > > Parents just don’t discipline their children anymore. The world was a much more pleasant place in my day. …and they’re always on my lawn! Little buggers just won’t get off, and today’s laws won’t let me shoot them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/7 "2011-07-15T02:28:38Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > You have to have a conscience to be 1960s-style rebellious Or a genuine desire to not go to Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/8 "2011-07-15T02:28:54Z")
Kids today are a direct result of insufficient chlorine in the human gene pool. Or a meaty military draft. Perhaps both. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/9 "2011-07-15T02:31:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Or a genuine desire to not go to Vietnam. In a selfish sense of “I don’t wanna die/I don’t wanna be stuck in a jungle” or in some “moralistic/conscientious” sense of “I don’t want to fight an immoral war”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/10 "2011-07-15T02:44:57Z")
Well, the two states are not wholly distinct. I can picture someone concluding the war is immoral _and_ not wanting to risk one’s own life in it. If that same person was around on December 8th, 1941, I can picture him enlisting to risk his life in what he perceived as a just war, with no real contradiction. And I’ve worked a recruiting booth a few times, incidentally. For a 18-21 year-old uncertain about their life path, or a freshly-graduated college student with more debts than goals, a hitch in the service could be just the thing. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/11 "2011-07-15T02:50:52Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Today’s kids are horrible. When I walk through the local mall, I’m often shocked by hearing children not only say “no” to a parent, but even swear at their mothers. They have zero respect for authority, are uncouth, loud, and generally unpleasant. That shit flat out did not fly when and where I grew up. I’m 45 years old, outweigh my mother by well over 100 pounds, and I have no doubt that were I to swear at her today she’d rattle my teeth so fast I’d never even see it coming…and I’d deserve it. When a parent tells a minor child to jump, the acceptable responses are : "Yes, Ma’am/Sir (as appropriate), or “How high, Ma’am/Sir?” “No” is not an option. > > Parents just don’t discipline their children anymore. The world was a much more pleasant place in my day. OTOH, it may be better kids are just assholes rather than participating in drive-by shootings or dealing heroin. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/12 "2011-07-15T02:54:22Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Compared to say twenty or thirty years ago are kids “better” in the sense of being more behaved, less rebellious, and whatnot? Consider the following: crime rates have gone down across the board for the last twenty years and while this generation is quite socially liberal it does not riot or rebel as violenty as say the Boomers forty years ago or as cynical and nilhistic as the Xers twenty years ago. Whaddaya expect? [Prophet, Nomad, Hero.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory) If the theory holds, the next generation after will be Artists and we can all relax a little. (Artists are nice but dull.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/13 "2011-07-15T02:54:49Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > OTOH, it may be better kids are just assholes rather than participating in drive-by shootings or dealing heroin. Can’t they do it all? Lazy kids today, can’t be assholes _and_ do drive-bys on rival heroin dealers… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/14 "2011-07-15T02:59:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Whaddaya expect? [Prophet, Nomad, Hero.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory) If the theory holds, the next generation after will be Artists and we can all relax a little. (Artists are nice but dull.) They get wild in their midlives though… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/15 "2011-07-15T03:06:19Z")
I think kids today are too lazy and fat to get into much trouble. I mean, it’s pretty hard to be all rebellious and stuff when you have to get on the computer at 6pm for a vital dungeon raid with 100 of your best buddies! 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/16 "2011-07-15T03:13:37Z")
Of course it depends by what you mean by “better” but going by the things we can measure, yes, yes they are better. Numbers from [this pdf](http://www.childstats.gov/pdf/ac2011/ac_11.pdf) > [@](#): > > The birth rates for Black, non-Hispanic, White, nonHispanic, and Asian or Pacific Islander females ages 15–17 dropped by about half or more between 1991and 2005 … > > Among 8th-, 10th-, and 12th-grade students in 2010, the percentages who reported smoking cigarettes daily in the past 30 days were about a third to a half of the percentages for the same groups in the peak years of 1996 and 1997. The most dramatic declines were seen among the youngest students. In 2010, 3 percent of 8th-grade students, 7 percent of 10th-grade students, and 11 percent of 12th-grade students reported smoking cigarettes daily in the past 30 days, compared with their respective peaks of 10, 18, and 25 percent. … > > Heavy drinking declined from the most recent peaks of 13 percent in 1996 to 7 percent in 2010 for 8thgrade students, from 24 percent in 2000 to 16 percent in 2010 for 10th-grade students, and from 32 percent in 1998 to 23 percent in 2010 for 12th-grade students. … > > Reports of illicit drug use in the past 30 days have declined from the most recent peaks of 15 percent for 8th-grade students and 23 percent for 10th-grade students in 1996, and 26 percent for 12th-grade students in 1997 … > > The proportion of students who reported ever having had sexual intercourse declined significantly from 1991 (54 percent) to 2001 (46 percent) and remained relatively stable from 2001 to 2009. … 61 percent reported condom use. Of particular note is that condom use has increased since 1991 (from 46 percent) among high school students. … > > In 2009, the serious violent crime offending rate was 11 crimes per 1,000 juveniles ages 12–17, with a total of 276,000 such crimes involving juveniles. This is similar to the rate in 2008, but it is substantially lower than the 1993 peak rate of 52 crimes per 1,000 juveniles ages 12–17. … Of those the illicit drug use is the only one that is a pretty mixed bag. True use in 1980 by 12th graders was much higher, but it had bottomed out in 1990, come back some by the later 90’s and since then dropped a little and come back up a little less. With that one caveat, kids today are getting drunk less, having sex less, using contraception more, having babies less, and committing violent crimes less. So by those metrics, yes, better. As politically involved? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/17 "2011-07-15T03:28:18Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Today’s kids are horrible. Seriously–what’s going on with today’s kids? They mouth off to adults, and they disrespect parents. They break the law. They roam the mall talking crazy talk. They have no sense of right and wrong. What will they be like as adults? (1) When I was a kid, I was taught to be quiet and to respect adults, but today’s kids are mouthy and have no discipline. (2) I think it comes down to kids not respecting their parents. They’re rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control. (3) 1. Plato 2. Hesiod 3. 6000-year-old Egyptian tomb ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/18 "2011-07-15T03:34:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seriously–what’s going on with today’s kids? They mouth off to adults, and they disrespect parents. They break the law. They roam the mall talking crazy talk. They have no sense of right and wrong. What will they be like as adults? (1) When I was a kid, I was taught to be quiet and to respect adults, but today’s kids are mouthy and have no discipline. (2) I think it comes down to kids not respecting their parents. They’re rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control. (3) > > 1. Plato > 2. Hesiod > 3. 6000-year-old Egyptian tomb :mad: Why can’t they be like we were – perfect in every way?! What’s the matter with kids tooodaaaaaayyyy?!! 4) 1. _Bye Bye Birdie_ ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/19 "2011-07-15T04:23:00Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Today’s kids are horrible. When I walk through the local mall, I’m often shocked by hearing children not only say “no” to a parent, but even swear at their mothers. They have zero respect for authority, are uncouth, loud, and generally unpleasant. That shit flat out did not fly when and where I grew up. I’m 45 years old, outweigh my mother by well over 100 pounds, and I have no doubt that were I to swear at her today she’d rattle my teeth so fast I’d never even see it coming…and I’d deserve it. When a parent tells a minor child to jump, the acceptable responses are : "Yes, Ma’am/Sir (as appropriate), or “How high, Ma’am/Sir?” “No” is not an option. > > Parents just don’t discipline their children anymore. The world was a much more pleasant place in my day. If the older generation did such a great job raising their kids, how come those kids grew up to be such crappy parents? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/20 "2011-07-15T05:08:32Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In a selfish sense of “I don’t wanna die/I don’t wanna be stuck in a jungle” or in some “moralistic/conscientious” sense of “I don’t want to fight an immoral war”. Not wanting to be uselessly conscripted into an unjust and unnecessary war to die or be grossly dismembered in an extraordinarily hostile and extremely foreign environment is _selfish_? Fuck Sparta. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086.md?page=2)