# Are Kids Getting Better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086 "2011-07-15T01:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/21 "2011-07-15T05:19:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And I’ve worked a recruiting booth a few times, incidentally. For a 18-21 year-old uncertain about their life path, or a freshly-graduated college student with more debts than goals, a hitch in the service could be just the thing. It **is** a good way to gain essential military experience for the Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/22 "2011-07-15T05:22:54Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I think kids today are too lazy and fat to get into much trouble. I mean, it’s pretty hard to be all rebellious and stuff when you have to get on the computer at 6pm for a vital dungeon raid with 100 of your best buddies! 😛 > > -XT Not to mention all the osteoporosis from drinking gallons of Coke every day. 🙂 > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seriously–what’s going on with today’s kids? They mouth off to adults, and they disrespect parents. They break the law. They roam the mall talking crazy talk. They have no sense of right and wrong. What will they be like as adults? (1) When I was a kid, I was taught to be quiet and to respect adults, but today’s kids are mouthy and have no discipline. (2) I think it comes down to kids not respecting their parents. They’re rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control. (3) > > 1. Plato > 2. Hesiod > 3. 6000-year-old Egyptian tomb Someone trots these hoary old chestnuts out every single time we try to talk about what modern kids are like. I don’t think there can be any room for doubt that modern children are different than they’ve ever been before; they’re being raised in a society with influences on them that have never been seen on the earth before. I don’t know if overall they are better or worse, but they certainly are different. I think some of the things we’re seeing is a generation being raised with previously un-seen levels of entitlement and narcissism. I think that translates into crimes done by young people - maybe not violent crimes, but vandalism and theft type crimes, because not only do they feel they deserve to do whatever they please, but they have been raised with the idea that they can get away with whatever they please (I’m talking in generalities, of course). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/23 "2011-07-15T05:26:22Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think some of the things we’re seeing is a generation being raised with previously un-seen levels of entitlement and narcissism. We have a very prosperous society compared with previous generations’. “Previously un-seen levels of entitlement and narcissism” are both an inevitable consequence and a small price to pay. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/24 "2011-07-15T05:31:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seriously–what’s going on with today’s kids? They mouth off to adults, and they disrespect parents. They break the law. They roam the mall talking crazy talk. They have no sense of right and wrong. What will they be like as adults? (1) When I was a kid, I was taught to be quiet and to respect adults, but today’s kids are mouthy and have no discipline. (2) I think it comes down to kids not respecting their parents. They’re rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control. (3) > > 1. Plato > 2. Hesiod > 3. 6000-year-old Egyptian tomb The more that things change, the more they stay the same. But try this one out: Because change is a constant, in order for things to remain the same, they must change. Say that again? Where’s the error? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/25 "2011-07-15T05:36:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We have a very prosperous society compared with previous generations’. “Previously un-seen levels of entitlement and narcissism” are both an inevitable consequence and a small price to pay. I agree somewhat with inevitable consequence, but I’m not sure about how small the price is that our society is going to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/26 "2011-07-15T11:33:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Someone trots these hoary old chestnuts out every single time we try to talk about what modern kids are like. Well, of course we do: it’s because your complaints themselves ARE the hoary old chestnuts, so we’re just reminding you that what you’re saying is nothing new. > [@](#): > > I don’t think there can be any room for doubt that modern children are different than they’ve ever been before; they’re being raised in a society with influences on them that have never been seen on the earth before. I don’t know if overall they are better or worse, but they certainly are different. Yes, but that doesn’t mean kids are essentially different, which is the point. They’re still immature humans, who act as immature humans act. And you’re a mature human, acting as a mature human acts. It’s very difficult for adults to remember accurately what other kids were like when THEY were kids: folks often have a very rosy image of their own behavior as a kid, and generalize that that image to others of their generation, and the behavior of the loudest kids around them (i.e., the ones they notice–the quiet kids slip beneath the radar) compares unfavorably to their faulty memories of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/27 "2011-07-15T11:35:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > … they’re being raised in a society with influences on them that have never been seen on the earth before. I don’t know if overall they are better or worse, but they certainly are different. > > I think some of the things we’re seeing is a generation being raised with previously un-seen levels of entitlement and narcissism. I think that translates into crimes done by young people - maybe not violent crimes, but vandalism and theft type crimes … Yes, they are being raised in a world different than any generation before them … just like every generation before them was. For American kids less secure jobs, more justified fear that they will do less well than their parents did, a “flatter” world … and so. I’ve given the cite that they have less sex, have smarter sex, do less alcohol and overall less drugs, commit less violent crime … You are claiming they are thieving more though. Any cite for that or is it just another “oh these kids today!” canard? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/28 "2011-07-15T12:27:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > With that one caveat, kids today are getting drunk less, having sex less, using contraception more, having babies less, and committing violent crimes less. Better, maybe, but they sure as shit sound duller. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/29 "2011-07-15T12:29:22Z")
I’ve taught high school for ten years, and I like today’s teenagers better than the ones I knew in my own high school years (early 90s). A lot of that may be my point-of-view: I’m sure there’s a lot of nastiness I don’t see. But generally speaking, kids seem happier than we were, with a lot less angst. In the 90s, being “cool” meant actually being “cool”: not being too invested in anything, not too passionate, always being a little wryly detached, never worrying about the future because it was going to suck no matter what. That’s just not the case any more: it’s ok to be a geek, it’s ok to be interested in things, it’s ok to see society as something you have a place in, and will have a place in as an adult. In the early 90s, we had this vague idea that feeling any sort of connection to the wider adult world was “selling out”. Now, maybe I hung out with terrible slackers then and happen to have great kids now, but I like now better, and it sure feels like a change. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/30 "2011-07-15T12:39:54Z")
There is one major difference though. Young people today have now grown up with constant access to information; something that has never been available before. If they seem impatient, entitled, and arrogant it is because they are accustomed to be able to call “cite” on just about anything and back it up immediately. This will naturally place them at odds with older folks who had to earn their knowledge the hard way, who are more than a little jealous and resentful. In the past it was important to pay your dues because it took years to learn the ropes. Now you can look it up in a few seconds from your smartphone, and that stings a little I’m sure. It would be a mistake to understate the gravity of this new dimension of human development. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/31 "2011-07-15T13:08:07Z")
There are some things that make me optimistic about today’s kids (they’re tolerant and charitable for starters), but I think the idea of saying kids are better or worse than they used to be is pretty stupid. I hope humanity is moving in the right direction in a general way. In any case, where do you draw dividing lines in generations of kids? If you think you can really make this kind of comparison, you need a very clear divideng line. All those sorts of things are up for interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/32 "2011-07-15T14:10:40Z")
I just never believe it, at all, when people say “Today’s kids are \_\_\_\_”. That’s been said through every generation, throughout time, and it’s never going to change. Old folks always think this batch of kids is new and different. I think, as Marley23 says, we are moving in the right direction as human beings, and I think the fact that information is available at our finger tips is a good thing. We are going to have a whole batch of kids who think more globally than we do, that speak to people all over the world, even if it’s only Xbox Live, and who realize that people in the rest of the world are just people and not boogeymen. It absolutely has its negatives but I firmly believe it’s a net positive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/33 "2011-07-15T14:11:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I agree somewhat with inevitable consequence, but I’m not sure about how small the price is that our society is going to pay. We can deal. With the legendary exception of [Sybaris](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybaris), no society yet fell because its people were **spoiled.** That’s as preposterous as the [“Tytler Cycle”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler#Misquotation_-_Tytler_Cycle) (which describes, as if it were well known to all and the reader but needed reminding, a process that has never yet happened in human history). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/34 "2011-07-15T14:16:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I just never believe it, at all, when people say “Today’s kids are \_\_\_\_”. That’s been said through every generation, throughout time, and it’s never going to change. Old folks always think this batch of kids is new and different. Well? Sometimes this new batch of kids **is** new and different, there are many historical examples. Different is not always worse. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/35 "2011-07-15T14:26:05Z")
Of course parents in the 60s never complained about their kids disrespecting them and no one in the 60s ever proclaimed “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/36 "2011-07-15T14:44:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > … I think that translates into crimes done by young people - maybe not violent crimes, but vandalism and theft type crimes … Nope. [Not vandalism.](http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05212) [Not theft.](http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05207) Actually quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Lil\_Ol\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@Lil\_Ol\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lil_Ol_Lady)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/37 "2011-07-15T16:08:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Or a genuine desire to not go to Vietnam. I had no chance of going to Vietnam and I was caught up in that movement. There were lots of people who had no chance of going to Vietnam who were caught in the movements of the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Lil\_Ol\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@Lil\_Ol\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lil_Ol_Lady)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/38 "2011-07-15T16:16:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are some things that make me optimistic about today’s kids (they’re tolerant and charitable for starters) I would say kids today are charitable when it’s convenient for them. I find few that would actually do something that costs them something. When I was a young girl we would actually give people things to the point of not getting something for me. They are tolerant on things they agree with. But just as intolerant of those things they don’t agree with. > [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > There is one major difference though. Young people today have now grown up with constant access to information This is a great point. Today’s kids have more realistic expectations. But this in some ways takes away the fun of being young. When I was young everything was an adventure. I once drove from NYC to LA for the opening night of a play I wrote. Of course it was bad and closed two days later. Can you imagine driving 3,000 miles now to see a play that you wrote? I guess it takes youth. As for kids being rude to their parents, yes it’s much worse than when I was a kid in the 50s, but it’s not just kids. Society is so rude today. Adults are just as rude as their kids are. I will also admit we were fake polite in the 50s and 60s. But it costs nothing to be nice and hold your tongue. It costs nothing not to air your dirty laundry. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard someone screaming into a cell phone about personal things, I’d be embarrassed to talk about to anyone. But that isn’t kids being rude, it’s society as a whole has gotten ruder. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/39 "2011-07-15T16:33:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Nope. > > [Not vandalism.](http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05212) > > [Not theft.](http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05207) > > Actually quite the opposite. Damn - my bad luck to live only in neighbourhoods where every flat surface has graffiti on it and everything not locked down walks away (and I don’t live in the bad part of town - I live in a quiet residential area). Your cites are accurate as far as they go, but what I’m experiencing in my life isn’t matching up with them. Also, your cites are for arrests; [vandalism is the largest unreported crime in Canada.](http://theothersideof55.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/the-scourge-of-vandalism/) At this point, we just consider vandalism and theft the cost of living here. We have planned our yard with the idea of juvenile delinquents wrecking and stealing whatever is closest to the road. As for the argument that kids are being raised in a different world just like always, no one has ever lived in a modern world like ours before, with the technologies and advances that we have now. I don’t see how that can _not_ affect kids and how they’re being raised. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086/40 "2011-07-15T17:12:37Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > As for the argument that kids are being raised in a different world just like always, no one has ever lived in a modern world like ours before, with the technologies and advances that we have now. I don’t see how that can _not_ affect kids and how they’re being raised. Well, yes, but wouldn’t the same have been true of the first generation with access to cars? Access to electric light? Access to the telephone? Radio? Television? Phonographs? Whisky? Wine? Paved roads? The wheel? The franchise? All of these could drastically change what it means to be a youth; thus the complaints going back thousands of years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kids-getting-better/589086.md?page=3)