# Are Kosher Chickens Debeaked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557 "2003-11-21T19:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/1 "2003-11-21T19:16:02Z")
Linky: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031121.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031121.html) I’m usually of the “it’s just gonna get eaten anyway” philosophy when it comes to the treatment of livestock, but this debeaking thing kinda gives me the willies. However, I think I’m ok on this point because I eat only Kosher meat. Since Kashrut demands a checking of the animal for prior injuries, I’d assume that debeaking is a no-no on Empire’s farms. Is that right? How do the kosher poultry farms handle the issues that non-debeaked chickens cause? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/2 "2003-11-21T21:58:00Z")
Disclaimer: I know nothing at all about this, I’m just guessing. A hen that had been debeaked wouldn’t count as an “injury”, would it? “Injury”, in the context of “safe food handling”, would seem to imply something that was both accidental (and unintentional), and medically untreated–an open wound, for example, or sores. Debeaking is done under controlled, reasonably sanitary conditions, like castration or dehorning in cows, sheep, and goats. So I would think that if kashrut had a problem with debeaked hens, then it would also have a problem with castrated or dehorned cows, sheep, or goats. Does it? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/3 "2003-11-24T21:06:43Z")
hmmm… good point. I know for a fact there are kosher capons (castrated roosters). So it might not count. Distressing. Anyone know for sure? (Mods: is moving this to GQ an option?) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/4 "2003-11-25T01:21:49Z")
OK, so moved. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/5 "2003-11-25T12:44:32Z")
Not that I know anything about kosher laws, but I do know a little about chickens. And what I know is that if you do _not_ debeak a free-roaming chicken, there are going to be injuries. The term “pecking order” has a very real origin in the poultry world, and it ain’t pretty. ---
**Author:** ![sford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sford)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/6 "2003-11-25T15:10:54Z")
Alas, like most Jews, I’m ignorant of most of the law as it relates to the _production_ of food. But I will admit to the hope that the animals are treated better. Among the general population, there is a wide range of opinion on what constitutes humane treatment. But it is pretty common for Jewish law to try to pin things down a bit more. In particular the laws of kashrut tend to get very detail-oriented. Unfortunately, at a practical level it boils down to what a particular certifying organization decides. I.e. will a de-beaked chicken end up with a circle-U on it? I’m not so cynical as to believe that the Union completely ignores issues of humane treatment, but I’m also pretty sure they aren’t PETA members. For example: > [@](#): > > Rabbi Moshe Feinstein (ZTL) … indicated in > 1982 that it is forbidden for Jews to raise calves for veal under > current intensive livestock agricultural conditions, since this > violates the prohibition of tsa’ar ba’alei chayim, and he explains > why the production of veal is not a legitimate necessity which could > justify such suffering. (taken from [http://www.ottmall.com/mj\_ht\_arch/v27/mj\_v27i45.html](http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v27/mj_v27i45.html) without permission) And yet, I can get veal at my kosher market. Does that mean that those calves are _not_ raised under “current intensive livestock” conditions? Or does it simply mean that the Union disagrees with Feinstein? I wish I knew… ---
**Author:** ![RedNaxela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ad7895/32.png) [@RedNaxela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedNaxela)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/7 "2003-11-25T15:33:50Z")
Disclaimer: IANARabbi **DDG** : In the context of the laws of kashrut, it generally doesn’t matter whether a particular defect happened accidentally or was inflicted deliberately. The question basically boils down to whether Jewish law considers a particular organ to be vital. The Code of Jewish Law (Yoreh De’ah 33:1-2) lays down the following guidelines: if the lower jaw of an animal (or lower beak of a bird) is removed, then it remains kosher provided that it’s still capable of ingesting food. On the other hand, if the upper jaw is removed, the animal (or bird) is non-kosher (because it’s important for breathing). I don’t know how much of the chicken’s beak is removed in debeaking, but I would assume that they leave comfortably enough for it to be able to eat, and certainly to breathe. So I would think that this wouldn’t make the chickens unkosher. [Whether it’s correct to do this, from the point of view of causing pain to living creatures (an important consideration in the Jewish scale of values), is a whole other question; perhaps the issue of pain to the debeaked bird vs. pain to another bird that it would peck to death - as **flodnak** notes - might come into play here.] I’m fairly certain that castration or dehorning don’t in and of themselves make an animal unkosher either (unless they cause injury to vital organs - the skull or the intestines - in the process), but I can’t find any sources for this just now. (It is true that castration of humans or animals is prohibited to Jews, but if an animal is castrated by a non-Jew, a Jew is allowed to buy it.) ---
**Author:** ![sford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@sford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sford)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/8 "2003-12-01T19:05:15Z")
I’ve seen some talk about de-beaking as preventing injury from chickens pecking each other. My understanding is that it doesn’t become a serious problem unless they’re over-croweded. This stresses the animals, which leads to anti-social behavior. So, if you have to de-beak chickens to prevent a serious amount of pecking, then you’re already stressing them and (in many people’s opinion) unacceptably lowering their quality of life. RedNaxela - that’s quite an excerpt from the Law. I wonder why one would want to remove _either_ jaw… ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-kosher-chickens-debeaked/214557/9 "2003-12-01T19:49:42Z")
[http://www.ivu.org/religion/articles/jewish3.html](http://www.ivu.org/religion/articles/jewish3.html) > [@](#): > > While codes of Jewish law have not, to date, specifically addressed consumption of factory-farm animals and their byproducts, the ancient Biblical laws are instructive. Furthermore, Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch noted that we have an affirmative duty under Jewish law to minimize pain to animals: “God’s teaching . . . obliges you not only to refrain from inflicting unnecessary pain on any animal, but to help and, when you can, to lessen the pain whenever you see an animal suffering, even through no fault of yours.” (39) Based on Rabbi Hirsch and others, more recent authorities have criticized modern agriculture as inconsistent with the Torah. “\*t seems doubtful,” according to Rabbi Aryeh Carmell, a modern Torah scholar in Jerusalem, “whether the Torah would sanction ‘factory farming,’ which treats animals as machines, with apparent insensitivity to their natural needs and instincts.” (40) The former Chief Rabbi of Ireland David Rosen recognizes that “the current treatment of animals in the livestock trade definitely renders the consumption of meat as halachically unacceptable as the product of illegitimate means.” (41) The former Chief Rabbi’s statement logically extends to dairy eggs, and other animal products which are likewise “the product of illegitimate means.”