# Are left-handed people disabled? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792 "2004-03-06T00:27:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sepheryn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sepheryn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sepheryn)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/81 "2004-03-09T03:53:10Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > \ (but hey, it’s my thread) > > How are can openers right-handed? I’ve never figured out how they’re a problem for other lefties. You hold the handles with your left hand (which takes more strength since you’re forcing them closed), and turn the key with your right. Do righties do something differently, or do some lefties find it hard to turn the key with their right hand? Or do other lefties try to reach over and do the reverse of what I do? I can see _that_ being awkward! > > And what do leftie can-openers even look like? I’ve got the idea that they must be “built up” so the key doesn’t hit the can in mid-turn… > > \ Lefties would do it the opposite way righties would. We’d hold the handle with our right hand and turn the key with our left. This means that in order to use a normal can opener, we’d either have to cross our arms or hold the can opener upside-down and open the bottom of the can. A left-handed can opener essentially is the mirror image of a right-handed can opener. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/82 "2004-03-09T08:43:46Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Why is handedness as learned my case to prove, and not handedness as inborn? Show me that there are articles proving babies are able to use one hand any better than the other prior to muscle development. I don’t mean “preference,” but _ability_. WTF? Your proof fell flat, so now you’re just gonna say “Nyah, nyah! I don’t _have_ to prove it”? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/83 "2004-03-09T13:09:55Z")
I see no proof either way, blowero. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/84 "2004-03-09T13:16:38Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > WTF? Your proof fell flat, so now you’re just gonna say “Nyah, nyah! I don’t _have_ to prove it”? :rolleyes: Not to mention, I provided extensive COMMON SENSE, which you can’t find “juried scientific proof” of. It’s common sense that handedness is mostly a matter of using tools, and that we aren’t born using those tools, and that we learn how to use them. It’s also common knowledge that people learn how to use those tools. If you put your hands over your ears and go NA NA NA NA, what can I do? The articles cited earlier from [genetics.org](http://genetics.org) (not by me) and the article I did cite fo have bibliographies, and state that the theories are all over the place with no real conclusions. So if you want proof, go find it. Scientists haven’t proved anything. There’s nothing to cite. But I stand by my common sensical position. I will find no “juried scientific journal articals” proving that children can’t use either hand to use tools at birth, because this is too obvious for anyone to prove. If you refuse to engage in even a little bit of debate based on reason, and just want to go “cite cite cite,” at least do it for both sides. Prove that babies CAN use tools. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/85 "2004-03-09T13:22:56Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Not to mention, I provided extensive COMMON SENSE, which you can’t find “juried scientific proof” of. Your abject surrender is accepted. Whenever somebody resorts to the above non-argument, it is obvious that we are dealing with _National Enquirer_ levels of “science”. I prefer real science to “common sense” driven quackery. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/86 "2004-03-09T13:27:44Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > Your abject surrender is accepted. Whenever somebody resorts to the above non-argument, it is obvious that we are dealing with _National Enquirer_ levels of “science”. I prefer real science to “common sense” driven quackery. Yeah right! Babies ARE born able to do anything with their “strong” hand, and my post is the proof. This is not a “great debate,” it’s a pile on. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/87 "2004-03-09T13:38:55Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I didn’t have the hand strength/dexterity required to get the thing in anything but first or second gear. It might have been that particular car, but I don’t care enough to make another attempt at learning.; it’s not like there’s a shortage of automatics, and if an emergency required me to drive a standard, I guess I’d just keep the car in low gear 🙂 Millions of left-handed people drive stickshift. I simply do not believe you can’t do it. Unless you’ve had your right hand in a sling all your life. Some people would like to think that pregnancy is a disability, too (check out Walmart’s special “parking for pregnant women” spots). If a person has always been left-handed, it isn’t a disability. It’s what you know. It’s what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/88 "2004-03-09T14:09:08Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Not to mention, I provided extensive COMMON SENSE, which you can’t find “juried scientific proof” of. It’s common sense that handedness is mostly a matter of using tools, and that we aren’t born using those tools, and that we learn how to use them. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Handedness is a matter of using your **hands**. I most often scratch with my left hand, I pet animals, with my left hand, I’ll reach out to accept something someone hands me with my left hand. Tool use with my left hand is a product of my left-hand dominance; I’d still be left-handed if we didn’t use tools, however. You’ve got nothing like common sense on your side. > [@](#): > > Prove that babies CAN use tools. Of course not. That’s not what’s under debate. > [@](#): > > This is not a “great debate,” it’s a pile on. You’re correct, but the fault for this lies with you. Look, if I came into a debate thread about whether English should be our country’s official language and said, “What language you speak is genetically determined,” and refused to offer any cites whatsoever for the claim, and then suggested later on that it was simply “common sense” and challenged my opponents to prove that Chinese toddlers spoke English just as often as British toddlers, I’d get myself a pile-on too. Your argument is nonsensical, wholly unsupported by any evidence, and contradicted by NIH studies and personal experiences. When confronted with this, you’ve resorted to rhetorical tricks, twists of your opponent’s arguments, and the beginnings of a martyrdom syndrome. At this point, unless you’re able to pull the mother of all cites out of your butt, the graceful thing to do is to admit you’d not thought your original argument through very carefully, apologize, and retract it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/89 "2004-03-09T14:16:38Z")
Skutir, why don’t you start learning to do everything you do with your right hand with your left hand until you can do it as good as you do it now? Then come back to use to tell us that we were “teached” to give preference to our left hand and that it has nothing to do with being inborn. You are stubbornly holding to a point that you have no experience with at all, talking against those who have all the needed experience with it since birth. And as I said: I was teached to use my right hand **since childhood** yet I **still** give preference to the use of my left hand. **Even for those skills I learned to do with my right hand as well** because **to do them with my left hand is for me the natural way to do them**. I’m also rather convinced that the fact that I am much more hindered by my dyslexia when using my right hand to write has a direct connection with that. Dyslexia affects among others also your capability to concentrate. It seems to me that the concentration I need to use my right hand with the needed skill to write, adds an additional burden to my concentration problem. See you when you can do with your left hand all you do now with your right hand as good and without any concentration/skill problems. In my opinion that means : Bye skutir. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/90 "2004-03-09T14:22:07Z")
> [@Thea Logica](#): > > OK, picture this scenario. Lefty starts a new job, has difficulties because his/her work station is set up for right-handed person. Lefty rearranges work station to make it easier to work at. Boss comes to cubicle, reprimands Lefty, orders him/her to put work station back the way it was. Lefty complies. Boss later reprimands Lefty for inefficiency on job, which is caused in large part by working at a station that is set up for right-handed person. Lefty begs permission to rearrange work station because this would enable him/her to perform job more efficiently. Boss says, “tough shit”. Lefty is eventually fired for inefficiency. > > I tend to think that a wrongful dismissal suit would be in order here, since handedness is a matter of neurological wiring, and Boss was aware of Lefty’s lefthandedness and refused to allow Lefty to make accomodations for his/her, well, for lack of a better word, condition, that would enable him/her to perform the job efficiently. Most people don’t have such difficulties relating to people they work with. I mean, you can pull any wild-ass thing out of the air and call it a reasonable scenario, but that doesn’t mean it is. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/91 "2004-03-09T14:45:18Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Handedness is a matter of using your **hands**. I At this point, unless you’re able to pull the mother of all cites out of your butt, the graceful thing to do is to admit you’d not thought your original argument through very carefully, apologize, and retract it. I admit I overstated my original remark. I don’t think I twisted anyone’s words around, at least not intentionally, but I am frustrated because I can’t make my point. Often, the obvious lack cites… you can not find scientific cites for things like “we learn to speak languages,” or “we learn to use tools”. I did post a link to an article that says babies don’t show their preferred hands until age 1, with a bib. Also, most of the articles cited do illustrate that scientists are exploring this hand-preference thing and mention that the theory of learned hands exists. That should be enough for a friendly discussion. Like many discussions, this is less about the topic and more about dopers piling on some hapless asshat. That asshat is me this time. I find it much more fun to be on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/92 "2004-03-09T15:12:15Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I admit I overstated my original remark. I don’t think I twisted anyone’s words around, at least not intentionally, but I am frustrated because I can’t make my point. Often, the obvious lack cites… you can not find scientific cites for things like “we learn to speak languages,” or “we learn to use tools”. You’re not claiming anything so obvious; rather, you’re changing the argument from “is handedness inherited?” to “handedness expresses itself primarily in the use of tools. Do people learn to use tools?” The second statement contains a false assumption: handedness expresses itself in the use of tools only because humans use tools a lot, but handedness expresses itself in many other ways, too. > [@](#): > > Also, most of the articles cited do illustrate that scientists are exploring this hand-preference thing and mention that the theory of learned hands exists. That should be enough for a friendly discussion. Except I don’t think you read **Who\_Me’s** cite from the NIH, which contains the following statements: > [@](#): > > The cause of handedness and its relation to the biologically specified scalp hair-whorl rotation is determined here. The general public, consisting of mostly right-handers (RH), shows counterclockwise whorl rotation infrequently in 8.4% of individuals. Interestingly, non-right-handers (NRH, i.e., left-handers and ambidextrous) display a random mixture of clockwise and counterclockwise swirling patterns. Confirming this finding, in another independent sample of individuals chosen because of their counterclockwise rotation, one-half of them are NRH. These findings of coupling in RH and uncoupling in NRH unequivocally establish that these traits develop from a common genetic mechanism. > … > As instances of clearly genetically inherited human behavior are few, the hand preference may be an interesting example. It is expected that this study should settle the unending nature-nurture debate for handedness in favor of nature. No doubt the expression of handedness itself is subject to social influences; however, the primary cause is evidenced here to be genetic. Therefore, we suggest that humans are born with hand preference that is prenatally determined. And this is a problem: throughout this discussion, you’ve not been paying attention to the specifics that some people are citing. Admittedly, stories about someone’s experience in raising their own kid don’t trump scientific data, but you didn’t offer any scientific data at all. Indeed, the only cite I’ve seen you make is to an [Ask Dr. Universe](http://druniverse.wsu.edu/QandA.asp?questionID=934) column. I’m sure you’d understand if I didn’t think Dr. Universe as strong a cite as a peer-reviewed article in a NIH journal – but that’s unnecessary. Dr. Universe doesn’t mention bibs or one-year-olds in that article; in fact, the closest he comes to contradicting the genetics theory is to say that: > [@](#): > > The trait may not even be genetic, but a function of development in the womb. In other words, he’s not sure whether or not it’s genetic (it is), but he doesn’t even entertain the possibility that it’s a learned behavior. I may have missed another cite you offered – I scanned the whole thread for posts by you, but maybe I overlooked a stronger cite. In any case, the question looks well settled now. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/93 "2004-03-09T17:23:51Z")
> [@bsmooth](#): > > Well skutir still hasn’t answered my question. How does a child born to right handed parents, and whose only sibling is right handed, and has only 1 other relative on both sides through their grandparents generation that was also left handed, LEARN to become left handed. I didn’t choose this because I thought it would make it easier in school, with a lack of scissors, desks, writing tablets. All I want to see if this evidence you have that states, that I learned to become left hand dominant. My parents are both right handed, as is my sister (my only sibling). My grandparents were all right handed. I have one left handed uncle and one left handed great aunt. All other relatives I’ve known were righties. Where would I have _learned_ to be left handed, other than those two relatives, prior to school? There may be non-genetic factors involved in handedness, but it seems to me we’re either born with a predetermined preference, or it develops soon after birth, but isn’t _learned_. ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/94 "2004-03-09T18:25:02Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > My parents are both right handed, as is my sister (my only sibling). > > My grandparents were all right handed. I have one left handed uncle and one left handed great aunt. All other relatives I’ve known were righties. Where would I have _learned_ to be left handed, other than those two relatives, prior to school? I have absolutly NO left handed relatives. And to give an idea as to the size of my family, my dad has 7 sisters. All apart from 1, have their own children, some of which have THEIR own children. I’d really like to know how I “learned” to be left handed! ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/95 "2004-03-09T20:38:30Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I see no proof either way, blowero. Well then stop making the POSITIVE assertion that handedness is “learned”. Not only is it not proven, it’s not even common sense. > [@](#): > > Not to mention, I provided extensive COMMON SENSE, which you can’t find “juried scientific proof” of. You have done nothing of the sort. What “common sense” tell us is that a preference for one hand over the other is somehow innate. Were it not, then society’s preference for right-handedness would result in EVERYONE being right-handed. Again I ask, if people _learn_ to be left-handed, where exactly are they learning it? In the cases where parents correct their children, they do so in favor of RIGHT-handedness, not left-handedness. There are simply no environmental pressures towards left-handedness that I am aware of. Common sense tells us that left-handedness is not learned; therefore, to make the counter-claim that it _is_ learned ought to require some evidence. Besides which, you originally claimed that your assertion was well-documented by the scientific community. You seem to be backpedaling now. > [@](#): > > It’s common sense that handedness is mostly a matter of using tools, and that we aren’t born using those tools, and that we learn how to use them. Nonsense. > [@](#): > > It’s also common knowledge that people learn how to use those tools. If you put your hands over your ears and go NA NA NA NA, what can I do? Um, no - that’s what I said YOU are doing. Your argument is the equivalent of “I’m rubber and you’re glue”. > [@](#): > > So if you want proof, go find it. Scientists haven’t proved anything. There’s nothing to cite. But YOU are the one who made the assertion. If you have no evidence, don’t make assertions. > [@](#): > > But I stand by my common sensical position. It’s really not common sense at all; it’s contrary to common sense. > [@](#): > > I admit I overstated my original remark. Thank you - that was pretty much my point. ---
**Author:** ![bsmooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9adbd/32.png) [@bsmooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bsmooth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/96 "2004-03-09T23:23:46Z")
[QUOTE=skutir. Like many discussions, this is less about the topic and more about dopers piling on some hapless asshat. That asshat is me this time. I find it much more fun to be on the other side.[/QUOTE] How did I become a doper. If you feel your a hapless asshat that is fine, but don’t start slinging slurs around, because of something you started. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792/97 "2004-03-10T00:23:02Z")
“Doper” is slang for “straight dope message board user.” You’ll see it used here and there to mean, basically, “us.” I do not engage in personal attacks in Great Debates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-left-handed-people-disabled/232792.md?page=4)