# Are lesbians considered "homosexual"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439 "2002-09-14T17:55:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/1 "2002-09-14T17:55:53Z")
Homosexual, Homo Sapiens, etc. = male crap. I can call myself homosexual, because I’m male. But what about females who are lesbian? Homosexual just doesn’t seem right, given the “homo” part implies male. (French: homme; Italian: uomo, etc.) Maybe I’m missing out on Queer History here, but I want to know if lesbians have their own nasty “category,” like gayboys do. If ypu don’t know, let’s celebrate anyway by flying on the Wonder Woman invisible jet to Lesbos, and have a big-ass party. I’ll bring the clam dip. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/2 "2002-09-14T18:13:36Z")
I think it is a different root word, the one that leads to words like “homogenous”, “homonym”, etc, which have to do with “sameness”, not “man-ness”. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/3 "2002-09-14T18:18:29Z")
I concur with **AHunter3**. Yes, lesbians are homosexual. “Homo” meaning same, and “sexual” meaning, uh, sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/4 "2002-09-14T18:19:43Z")
Technically, dictionary-definition-wise, “homosexual” means both male and female. But in colloquial conversation, people tend to use “homosexual” to mean guys and “lesbian” to mean girls. No idea why, sorry. > **[Dictionary by Merriam-Webster: America's most-trusted online dictionary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/)** > > The dictionary by Merriam-Webster is America's most trusted online dictionary for English word definitions, meanings, and pronunciation. #wordsmatter > [@](#): > > Main Entry: 1ho·mo·sex·u·al > Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'sek-sh(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l > Function: adjective > Date: 1892 > 1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex > 2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/5 "2002-09-14T18:20:58Z")
You are using the wrong etymology. From Merriam-Webster’s: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: hom- > Variant(s): or homo- > Function: combining form > Etymology: Latin, from Greek, from homos – more at SAME > 1 : one and the same : similar : alike \ \ > 2 : homosexual \ “Homo” in homosexual means attracted to the same sex, not to men, as can be seen by its converse, heterosexual. If “homosexual” meant “attracted to men” then heterosexual women would be homosexual, if you see what I mean. “Homo” does also mean “man,” but I believe it’s a different derivation. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/6 "2002-09-14T18:21:46Z")
Yes, **AHunter3** is right, you’re mistaking a derivation from Greek for a derivation from Latin (a common enough error). The French and Italian words you quoted come to us from Latin, but homosexual comes from Greek - it means a person attracted to others of the same sex, not those attracted to the male sex. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/7 "2002-09-14T18:24:53Z")
**AHunter3** and **MsWhatsit** have nailed it on the head. However, the Latin _homo_ doesn’t have strong connotations of manliness. It’s more like “that guy over there”. That’s the joke in Nietzche’s _Ecce Homo_; the title translates (roughly) as “Hey, look at that guy over there.” While you’d probably get looked at funny for calling a woman “homo” in ancient Rome, it’s not the same as calling her _vir_. That’d just be wrong. On a side note, very few people would picture a pair of women if you mention a homosexual couple. The term “lesbian” seems to be required to invoke that image. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/8 "2002-09-14T18:46:01Z")
I could also add that homosexual was not originally a Greek word, and so it has nothing to do with the culture of ancient Greece - the people who coined the word just decided to use a Greek root (the -sex part is Latin in any case). ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/9 "2002-09-14T18:49:18Z")
There’s roots, and then there’s popular 21st-Century usage. I know of no lesbians who would ever call themselves of others “homosexual”. I sure wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/10 "2002-09-14T21:12:37Z")
I find it ironic that as we try to use gender neutral language, lesbians feel the need for a seperate term to refer to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/11 "2002-09-14T21:14:17Z")
By the same logic women would not be homo sapiens. Course then you have the people that actually _believe_ that… As for lesbians calling themselves “homosexual” I don’t know of any native english speaking gay men who refer to themselves in that manner either. I generally refer to myself as gay when needed. ---
**Author:** ![cdhostage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@cdhostage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdhostage)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/12 "2002-09-14T21:18:33Z")
I think the term “lesbian” refers to the inhabitants of the island of Lesbos. A famous female author lived there (name?) and wrote about her relationships with women. The stereotype of Lesbians that they are all lesbians. So, lesbians didn’t choose the separate term for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![cdhostage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@cdhostage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdhostage)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/13 "2002-09-14T21:20:09Z")
English sucks major donkey balls. When a corporation (not a state) sends the first load of Mars colonists, they’ll be using a brand-new language and forbidding other languages to be spoken in public. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/14 "2002-09-14T21:31:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrMatrix \* > \*\*I find it ironic that as we try to use gender neutral language, lesbians feel the need for a seperate term to refer to themselves. \*\* Although gender neutral language was popular in the 1980’s and 90’s coming out of the cultural changes of the 1960’s and 70’s, gender neutrality" in job related language was (IMO) mainly a female heterosexual phenomenon. Lesbians in the last generation or so, have not been shy about wanting to “own” those differences. I think the term “womyn/wimmin” and its derivations are indicative of this “equal but separate” identity statement(s). In sum I don’t really think lesbians (in particular) are all that concerned about gender neutrality issues. ---
**Author:** ![SparrowHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/15 "2002-09-14T21:35:31Z")
**ultrafilter’s** right. _Homo_ in Latin is better translated “human”, male is _vir_, female is _femina_. It’s the silly English language that confounds human and male. See Dorothy L. Sayers 1946 essay “The Human-Not-Quite-Human”. [http://mnatal.members.easyspace.com/dlshuman.htm](http://mnatal.members.easyspace.com/dlshuman.htm) That would be Sappho, **cdhostage**. [http://www.sappho.com/poetry/historical/sappho.html](http://www.sappho.com/poetry/historical/sappho.html) ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/16 "2002-09-15T01:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*I could also add that homosexual was not originally a Greek word, and so it has nothing to do with the culture of ancient Greece - the people who coined the word just decided to use a Greek root (the -sex part is Latin in any case). \*\* Didn’t they (ancient Greeks) call male-male relationships “platonic?” PC ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/17 "2002-09-15T02:16:44Z")
I hated Tom Stoppard’s _The Invention of Love_, and the only joke I understood was when the main character, a repressed homosexual and Classics scholar, said he was offended by the word “homosexual” because it combined Greek and Latin. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/18 "2002-09-15T03:23:40Z")
cdhostage: > [@](#): > > I think the term “lesbian” refers to the inhabitants of the island of Lesbos. A famous female author lived there (name?) and wrote about her relationships with women. Sappho is the name you’re looking for. And, in fact, I’ve heard the word “Sapphic” applied to female homosexual relationships as well. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/19 "2002-09-15T04:26:09Z")
_[sub]Post deleted at **Anthracite** ’s request[/sub]_ ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439/20 "2002-09-15T14:15:10Z")
**Anthracite** , is/was your Sappho article available on the web somewhere? I could swear I read it while doing research on Sappho for a women’s studies class my senior year in high school. It gives me a smile to think I cited a Doper before I’d even ever heard of the SDMB. 🙂 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PosterChild \* > \*\*Didn’t they (ancient Greeks) call male-male relationships “platonic?” > \*\* I don’t know if _they_ called it Platonic; the adjective comes from the name Plato, and his description of love in “Phaedrus”. Platonic love is certainly not just a male homosexual relationship. It is a relationship based on a pure love between two people (often a young person and an older mentor figure) that is not tainted by jealousy or lust. The term “Platonic relationship” is today generally used to mean “just good friends” because a Platonic relationship is non-sexual, but Plato considered it to be much more than that. It was real love. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-lesbians-considered-homosexual/128439.md?page=2)