# Are liberals facing the equivalent of political checkmate with the Supreme Court for the next 25-30 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566 "2018-07-09T14:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/101 "2018-07-10T19:05:12Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > …Unlike Trump, Clinton is guilty of how she handed classified information… Nope. Accused, and not even prosecuted. Not even close to being guilty. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/102 "2018-07-10T19:05:42Z")
I think the Counselor has the advantage in popular vote, like 97%, but it won’t be settled until the vote from the Marketplace Forum is counted. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/103 "2018-07-10T19:09:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t see why that would make the Court illegitimate. The Court would have vacancies; the President has the power under Art II Sec 2 to appoint justices to fill those vacancies, with the advice and consent of the Senate. > > What is your idea for what should happen? And more important than your idea; what law supports your idea of what should happen? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t see why that wouldn’t be legitimate. Presidents get to nominate SCOTUS justices. There is nothing in the constitution that says it has to be done a certain way under unusual circumstances. Lots of people would gripe about it, but lots of people gripe about all sorts of things. That’s concerning. It means that, effectively, the best way for any given individual to enact social change is to wait until their party of choice controls at least one of the senate or the white house, then start shooting justices. And yeah, I don’t have a good solution, beyond “good bipartisan norms”. There’s certainly no _law_ to stop this, and no matter how you would form that law, it’d create some pretty perverse incentives. But… damn. It’s pretty fucked. And yeah, what **iiandyiiii** said. Sure, it might be _legally_ legitimate, but do you honestly believe, even for a moment, that any republican would think for a moment that that was okay? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/104 "2018-07-10T19:13:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Sure, it might be _legally_ legitimate, but do you honestly believe, even for a moment, that any republican would think for a moment that that was okay? A lower-case republican, like you wrote it? Sure, some would, if it helped advance their power. An upper-case Republican? Mere atavistic tribalism now \*dominates \*what’s left of their ideology, not respect for democratic traditions or norms, so hell yes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/105 "2018-07-10T19:21:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. And I suppose if a large majority saw future SCOTUS assassination vacancies being filled by a Democrat as being somehow illegitimate, they could absolutely push for a constitutional amendment to reform the appointment process, or more immediately push their senators not to consent to the appointments. That’s a feature of representative democracies. > > But you went from **BPC** ’s question about whether the Court would be illegitimate to the assumption that it would be illegitimate based on “large majorities,” believing it illegitimate. Perhaps I’m cynical to a fault, but I believe that if this were to happen, roughly half the country would be nonplussed. > > No matter what party benefitted. It would just be different halves, trading sanguinity for anger. I was speaking hypothetically – if such a series of events were to occur (i.e. serial murder of SCOTUS justices), I think it’s reasonable to posit that more than just half the public would feel that a significant change to the process and policy was needed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/106 "2018-07-10T19:27:42Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Clinton and the DNC likely have just as many illegal activities with people connected to it as the Trump organization has. Perhaps more considering their length of operation in politics. Unlike Trump, Clinton is guilty of how she handed classified information. > > … > Muller has nothing. Zero, nada, zilch. [I beg to differ on the disclosure of classified information by your hero.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_disclosures_of_classified_information) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump discussed classified intelligence during an Oval Office meeting on May 10, 2017 with the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and the Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, providing sufficient details that could be used by the Russians to deduce the source of the information and the manner in which it was collected, according to current and former government officials. The disclosure was first reported in The Washington Post on May 15, 2017. White House staff initially denied the report, but the following day Trump defended the disclosure, stating that he has the “absolute right” to “share” intelligence with Russia. > It was later reported that Israel was the source of the intelligence. Israel did not confirm or deny the report but released a statement stating full confidence in the intelligence sharing relationships with the United States. Ynetnews, an Israeli online news site, reported on January 12 that U.S. intelligence advised Israeli intelligence officers to be cautious about sharing information with the incoming Trump administration, until the possibility of Russian influence over Trump, suggested by Christopher Steele’s report (commonly referred as the Trump–Russia dossier), has been fully investigated. As far as Mueller having zero, those who have been indicted or pled guilty beg to differ. Mueller doesn’t run to twitter and share every thought, he is a grown-ass man who knows how to act like one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/107 "2018-07-10T19:29:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And yeah, what **iiandyiiii** said. Sure, it might be _legally_ legitimate, but do you honestly believe, even for a moment, that any republican would think for a moment that that was okay? I’m sure Republicans would go ape-shit over the idea of a Democratic president suddenly nominating a bunch of SCOTUS justices. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/108 "2018-07-10T19:35:30Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Muller has nothing. Zero, nada, zilch. How many members of Trump’s inner circle has Muller indicted, prosecuted, or convicted? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/109 "2018-07-10T19:40:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sure Republicans would go ape-shit over the idea of a Democratic president suddenly nominating a bunch of SCOTUS justices. Ape-shit is this new confrontational politics in public places being encouraged by some elected Democrats. It has to stop and should be repudiated by Democratic and Republican leaders alike. Hopefully, that goes away, until then Ape-shit will be reserved when either Ginsburg or Breyercreate a vacancy with Trump on his second term with a Senate majority. Republicans as far as I remember didn’t like Sotomayor’s past comment that a Latino woman makes a better decision than a white man. In all seriousness, if a Republican nominated justice said the reverse, people would jump on him or herfor making a racists statement! Why does Sotomayor get a pass? But there was a vetting process and a vote. You move on. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/110 "2018-07-10T19:47:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > How many members of Trump’s inner circle has Muller indicted, prosecuted, or convicted? Like I said before, if someone investigated Obama or Clinton to the same degree, you’d get the same. What does Muller have on Trump himself? Nothing, Nada, Zilch. The media is whipping the left into a frenzy over this Russia business, but once the cards come down for us to see, it will be paned like a badly hyped movie. Then expect a counter punch, and I told you so from the other side. The FBI has dirty hands, you’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/111 "2018-07-10T19:50:56Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Like I said before, if someone investigated Obama or Clinton to the same degree, you’d get the same. > > What does Muller have on Trump himself? Nothing, Nada, Zilch. > > The media is whipping the left into a frenzy over this Russia business, but once the cards come down for us to see, it will be paned like a badly hyped movie. > > Then expect a counter punch, and I told you so from the other side. The FBI has dirty hands, you’ll see. You are really going to suggest Clinton hasn’t been investigated to this degree? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/112 "2018-07-10T19:51:22Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Ape-shit is this new confrontational politics in public places being encouraged by some elected Democrats. The President’s talk of punching protesters, and other instances of encouraging violence, are far, far worse than the nonviolent confrontation advocated by Waters. Of course, we have no illusions that you’ll ever actually criticize Trump for advocating violence, for bragging about sexual assault and the violation of women’s consent, for his routine lies, for pushing false and racist conspiracy theories, and much more. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/113 "2018-07-10T19:53:53Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Permanent judges in the higher courts are appointed by the President…” > > Oh wait, that’s South Africa. 😃 > > Yes, in most democratic and demsoc nations politicians have some role in selecting the judiciary. The degree of that role varies considerably, but the US is not alone. > . You deliberately left out the most important part of that Wikipedia quote. :rolleyes: “Permanent judges in the higher courts are appointed by the President… _ **in consultation with the Judicial Service Commission** _ as well as the leaders of the political parties represented in South African National Assembly.” In practice this means that the Judicial Service Commission puts forward the name of a candidate, and (in theory) the President could refuse to endorse him. He doesn’t have any say in who is proposed. Judicial Service Commission is divided roughly evenly between senior members of the legal profession and politicians. The politicians include a fixed number of representatives of opposition parties, meaning that no political partly - including the ruling party - can outvote the others. So no one group can force their own candidates through. Seems like a good system to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/114 "2018-07-10T20:01:53Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Like I said before, if someone investigated Obama or Clinton to the same degree, you’d get the same. Yeah, how come Clinton has never been investigated? ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/115 "2018-07-10T20:05:38Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Ape-shit is this new confrontational politics in public places being encouraged by some elected Democrats. Encouraged like when Trump said “knock the crap out of them. I’ll pay your legal bills?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/116 "2018-07-10T20:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > You are really going to suggest Clinton hasn’t been investigated to this degree? The FBI has for many years been totally the bitch of the radical left. The cozy relationship between the FBI and the Black Panthers, for instance! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/117 "2018-07-10T20:18:25Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Republicans as far as I remember didn’t like Sotomayor’s past comment that a Latino woman makes a better decision than a white man. They didn’t like what they \*claimed \*she had said, no. But they didn’t quite get that right, now did they? ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/118 "2018-07-10T21:09:07Z")
Here is a good overview on Bret Cavanaugh and how he was able to get his dream job. [https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/brett-kavanaughs-journey-to-becoming-a-supreme-court-nominee](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/brett-kavanaughs-journey-to-becoming-a-supreme-court-nominee) ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/119 "2018-07-10T21:11:42Z")
Oops, sorry for the double post. I didn’t think the first one went through. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566/120 "2018-07-10T21:28:56Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > What does Muller have on Trump himself? Nothing, Nada, Zilch. Unless you are actually on Mueller’s investigative team, you haven’t a bleedin’ clue as to what Mueller may or may not “have on Trump himself”. So kindly cut the crap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-facing-the-equivalent-of-political-checkmate-with-the-supreme-court-for-the-next-25-30/817566.md?page=7)