# Are liberals less interested in the history of foreign countries than conservatives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2003, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870 "2003-05-08T10:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/1 "2003-05-08T10:09:39Z")
Liberal Michael Totten says [liberals are more interested than conservatives in foreign _culture_, but less interested in foreign _history_.](http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com/2003_05_04_michaeltotten_archive.html#200247952) Here are some excerpts from his essay, which includes links to other POVs: > [@](#): > > \*\*Monday, May 05, 2003 > 11:18 PM > > Builders and Defenders \*\* > > …For some reason, perhaps for several reasons, liberals and leftists are bored by the outside world. Compared with conservative magazines, publications like _The Nation_ and _The American Prospect_ rarely feature articles about what happens in other countries… > > Liberals think of themselves as more worldly than conservatives. This is true in some ways, but not so in others. It seems (to me) that liberals are more likely to travel, and are more likely to visit Third World countries in particular. (If you meet an American traveler in, say, Guatemala, odds are strongly against that person being a Republican.) Liberals are more likely to listen to “world music,” and are more likely to watch foreign films. Liberals are more likely than conservatives to study the negative consequences of American foreign policy. But that’s about it. If you want to find a person who knows the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, the Middle East during the Cold War, or the partition of India and Pakistan, you’re better off looking to the right than to the left… > > This is a broad generalization and there are, of course, lots of exceptions. _The New Republic_ and _Dissent_ both publish excellent analyses of international relations and foreign policy… But look at other left magazines like _The Nation_. Foreign policy is unmentioned except as an excuse to whack the Bush Administration. Read _The Weekly Standard_ and _National Review_ and you can easily find articles about, say, China or Iran. Many of these articles could easily have appeared in _The Nation_ or other left magazines, and yet they didn’t. Presumably the editors are bored with the subject, or their writers don’t know enough to write about it. I found this observation interesting, though I’m not sure I agree: > [@](#): > > The far-left says Republicans are Nazis. And the far-right says Democrats are socialists or even Communists. It’s an annoying habit for people on the margins, but the reason it happens is very different for each side. > > Radical leftists think the Bush Administration is like the Nazi Party for one specific reason. They haven’t studied the rise of the Nazis. They truly believe the comparison is apt not because they misunderstand Republicans, but because they misunderstand Hitler. > > Far-right conservatives have the opposite problem. They understand Lenin perfectly well. It’s the Democrats they don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/2 "2003-05-08T10:32:27Z")
That is possibly the stupidest and silliest assertion I have ever seen. On the basis of this alone I name this idjit a nitwit. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/3 "2003-05-08T10:57:57Z")
Harumph. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/4 "2003-05-08T11:59:20Z")
Note to self: Whenever you see an OP from the ghost of Christmas past on issues that don’t have a US zip code, think of the hamsters and don’t waste time and bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![mooka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@mooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mooka)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/5 "2003-05-08T12:08:40Z")
This is slightly ridiculous. The only way to settle this would be to do a large scale study, testing people on their interest and or knowledge of the world outside their own country, together with some sort of political questionnaire testing their political leanings. It could be done, but hasn’t been i suspect, because it would be a waste of time and money! Why does correlations between interest in overseas matters and politcal leaning matter? Surely its the political position itself we should be debating here, not some characteristic of the person holding the view. If someone believes that authoritarian governments are better than liberal ones then we can debate that, but discussing whether that person likes peanut butter sandwiches, or is interested in foreign affairs is silly. What you think of people holding “liberal” views is irrelevant. What is relevant is what you think of the “liberal” viewpoint on various topics, and what you can say to back yourself up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/6 "2003-05-08T12:15:28Z")
Most of my history professors were liberals. I’m a bleeding heart liberal, and I’m a history buff. And I haved a Bachelor’s in history. If anything, I would think liberals would be MORE interested in history, because it and culture are tied together. You have to study history first. History has told us time and again when you treat people like shit and oppress them, you breed resentment, and a situation that is ripe for communist sympathies, **december**. People usually turned to communism out of misery from right wing oppressors. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/7 "2003-05-08T12:24:59Z")
It’s not much of a debate response, but I would have to say this is the most ridiculous, partisan nonsense I’ve read in GD since the moon hoax threads. It is absolutely the worst GD thread since then. **december,** I don’t for an instant think you actually believe something this absurd and unsupported by any objective evidence. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/8 "2003-05-08T12:25:49Z")
I don’t see where the debate is, should move this to IMHO as a poll. Just another leading BS post. I’ve lived in Asia for nearly 20 years. While there are a lot of republicans or conservatives out here, most of them could give a toss about the people, language or culture. This is a gross generalization, but my ancedotal experience puts those short timers out on an expat package doing their 2 year career ladder climb are like that. You know when SARS hit China, the expats have fled like rats from a sinking ship. Dang near every one of them can’t speak even basic Chinese. By and large, those who care enough to learn the language or culture and actually like being in China are liberals. That has also been my experience in Asia. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/9 "2003-05-08T12:29:43Z")
Please people, there shouldn’t be any partisanship. This is quite simply a bi or multi partisan issue: the underlying article is idiotic, inane and worthless posturing by an attention seeking twit. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/10 "2003-05-08T13:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mooka \* > \*\*Why does correlations between interest in overseas matters and politcal leaning matter?.. > What you think of people holding “liberal” views is irrelevant. What is relevant is what you think of the “liberal” viewpoint on various topics, and what you can say to back yourself up. \*\* The cite comes from a liberal who knows a lot of history and wishes his liberal colleagues knew more of it. I agree that one cannot determine percentages, but I think we can identify a certain strain of thought. > [@](#): > > But look at other left magazines like The Nation. Foreign policy is unmentioned except as an excuse to whack the Bush Administration. [Another liberal blogger](http://amygdalagf.blogspot.com/#93756990) says that some some leftists he knows have engaged in a years-long course of education in international history that was “doctrinaire propaganda from a…didactic point of view.” (I think that’s what he meant. His wording is convoluted.) In other words, some on the left have a view that the history of the world can be adequately understood as a reflection of bad deeds by the United States. They think the US _caused_ Pinochet to take power in Chile, rather than just being one of his supporters. They don’t know about the internal Chilean causes for Pinochet’s rise to power. They think the US is responsible for Saddam ruling Iraq, just because the US supported him in the war against Iran. They don’t know the steps he went through to gain power, nor do they know about the government he replaced. They think the US caused bin Laden to take power, merely because we supported him against the USSR. They think the US caused the economic problems in Latin America, ignoring the local economic situations within each of those countries. This POV can be misleading. Those who blamed the US for Saddam’s power had trouble believing that Iraqi people would welcome the US soldiers. It didn’t occur to them that the Iraqi people blamed _Saddam_ for Saddam’s power. I don’t mean to say that most liberals think this way. I do think that the _Nation_ often takes this POV and some posters on this board do, too. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/11 "2003-05-08T13:07:57Z")
Oh for god’s sake, **december** , the CIA was involved in Pinochet’s coup. That’s pretty much a fact. Not to mention, the embargos against Allende, and then the Chicago Boys. Not to mention even _supporting_ that bastard was evil. Quit appologizing for him. He’s an evil bastard. Yeah, SOME people take this view. And some people are spinmeisters for the right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/12 "2003-05-08T13:12:42Z")
As for the US causing problems in Latin America-three words for you: United Fruit Company. Two more: William Walker. Another three: School of the Americas. And finally: Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/13 "2003-05-08T13:22:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Oh for god’s sake, **december** , the CIA was involved in Pinochet’s coup. That’s pretty much a fact. Not to mention, the embargos against Allende, and then the Chicago Boys. > > Not to mention even _supporting_ that bastard was evil. Quit appologizing for him. He’s an evil bastard. \*\* Let’s agree FTSOA that Pinochet was an evil bastard. It is confirmed that the CIA was involved in his coup. Let’s say that the US was dead wrong. Still, internal Chilean history is most important to understanding this coup. What were the internal political, military and economic situations in Chile? How many troops were loyal to Pinochet? Why were they willing to revolt against the elected government? How did the general populace feel about Allende and his policies? How did Allende’s governance of Chile compare with the governance before him? Would Allende have been overthrown even if the CIA hadn’t helped Pinochet? Simply stating that the US was on the wrong side doesn’t answer all these questions. ---
**Author:** ![TearsOfGlass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9c0ed/32.png) [@TearsOfGlass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TearsOfGlass)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/14 "2003-05-08T13:28:49Z")
I feel that you, December, and the author of this essay are very ignorant about things. First, the essay. I disagree that liberals are not interested in foreign history. I can personally say that I enjoy learning about other cultures and their histories. Also, to learn about a foreign culture, wouldn’t you have to learn at least a small bit about it’s history as well? In any case, I feel that this author is trying to make liberals look like they are unintelligent or uncaring about the world, while at the same time making the statement that conservatives care about it. From what I’ve seen of conservatives in our country, I can say that they couldn’t give a damn about the world, as long as they make money. Now on to December. I don’t understand how you can have such a blind view of things. Just because someone doesn’t agree with America and it’s war, does not make them anti-American or the like. In fact, the people who are anti-war actually care more about the world they live in because, they don’t want to anyone die for this stupid war. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/15 "2003-05-08T13:29:36Z")
And so we get down to what december really wanted to do, which is find an excuse to attack the ideological other (and with rather pitiful inattention to facticity). Good lord, let us just let this tripe sink into obscurity. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/16 "2003-05-08T13:30:43Z")
**Collounsbury** is right. This post reminds me of the time when I was a teenager and I spent one afternoon with a friend firing his BB gun into a hornet nest in his back yard, then running back into the house to watch the hornets buzz angrily, looking for the attackers, who were watching the fun from the large, sliding glass doors in the back of his house. This was all very pointless, but it was fun watching the hornets get mad as a result of our pointless attack. That’s what **december** ’s post amounts to. Considering the anecdotal evidence I have this doesn’t even follow, but to be fair, I’ve never done much of a study of it. I’ve noticed that anyone who’s interested in foreign cultures is probably going to be interested in foreign history, as well. The window-dressing of liking “world music” and foreign films is a red herring. I mean, five getcha ten there’s a lot of reggae fans couldn’t locate Jamaica on a map, no matter what their politics. Anyway, even if this article is accurate, it’s pretty damning of conservatives, as far as their foreign policy savvy goes. I mean, if you’re going to have an opinion of foreign policy you do need to know history, but you really ought to have a handle on foreign countries’ cultures, too. It seems to assert that American liberals and conservatives are both half-baked when it comes to foreign policy. While it’s true that Americans tend to have less of an interest in the world around them than you might expect from the citizens of the world’s preëminent economic and military power, the liberal/conservative breakdown that **december** and this quarter-baked blogger assert are just groundless, partisan sniping. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/17 "2003-05-08T13:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TearsOfGlass \* > \*\* In any case, I feel that this author is trying to make liberals look like they are unintelligent or uncaring about the world, while at the same time making the statement that conservatives care about it. \*\* Seems unlikely, since both my cites came from liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/18 "2003-05-08T13:35:03Z")
Yeah, and several conservatives have said that you’re wrong. What’s your point? Isn’t that a logical fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/19 "2003-05-08T13:37:42Z")
Both your… cites I suppose, articles, came from gibbering twits, whatever their self-identified political posturing. Garbage is Garbage regardless the political hat. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870/20 "2003-05-08T13:40:21Z")
Jeezus Herbert Christ – are **Marx** and **Engels** , the authors of the _Communist Manifesto_, a work which seeks to cast all of history into a class struggle – are these guys liberal enough history buffs for you? The OP is whinging joke. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-less-interested-in-the-history-of-foreign-countries-than-conservatives/173870.md?page=2)