# Are liberals really more "evolved" than conservatives? Scientific study suggests answer is yes. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383 "2011-02-23T21:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/141 "2011-02-26T19:42:07Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Different racial groups differ as much and in the same way as sub species of various animal species, and different breeds of domestic animals. The average IQ for a black person in the United States is 85. The average for a white is 100. The average for an East Asian is 106. When whites adopt black babies, most of them have IQs below 100. When they adopt East Asians, most of them have IQs above 100. Head Start has been a failure. > > Also, blacks in the United States have a crime rate that is about eight times the white crime rate. The crime rate for East Asians is about 75 percent the white crime rate. I have lived with poor Vietnamese war refugees, and blacks. There is a difference, believe me. I believe that difference is biological. The anger with which most liberals respond to a biological explanation tells me that they are not more rational and respectful of facts than conservatives, despite the claim made in the opening comment of this thread. Why is the current Russian murder rate astronomically high? (As high, or higher than the black American murder rate?) Why is the murder rate in Barbados lower than some European countries? Why has the black American murder rate varied over the course of the last century, being lower than the white American murder rate in the 1930’s? Demonstrate, with relevant citations, that black Americans are a single “race” as opposed to an admixed population with rates of African, European, and Native American ancestry which vary from individual to individual. I’ll wait. 😃 Why bother promoting racialist pseudoscience when it’s been repeatedly debunked? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/142 "2011-02-26T22:25:42Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Liberals are particularly prone to reject information that suggests bad things about homosexuals and blacks. This is actually true. Because liberals, by definition, recognize that the color of one’s skin says nothing about them, nor does their sexual orientation, so why would they give any credence to “correlation is causation” noise? Liberals recognize that the only way to _legitimately_ label people at all (in terms of their character and personality, which is the way you would be “suggesting bad things”) is by each individual’s own behavior: choices, words, beliefs and deeds. You know, the way we can and do label people “conservatives”. Then, once you have identified a group of people who behave/believe/speak in similar ways and label them, you can perhaps look around to see if there is something about them that they were born with that they share that might explain the fact that these people all believe/think/speak/act in such similar ways. And since our thoughts, actions, beliefs, and words are all dictated by our brains, not the color of our skin or the kink of our hair, looking at the brain to see if the brains of similar people share notably similar-to-each-other-and-different-from-everyone-else characteristics makes sense. (It also makes sense to look at their life experiences…) Our sexual orientation is also a product of our brain and perhaps some chemical differences, so it certainly does seem reasonable to wonder if the same chemical/brain differences that lead to homosexuality lead to other things as well. But the _ **facts** _ and statistics, studies and experience have all conclusively shown that if the chemical/brain structure differences that lead to homosexuality lead to anything else as well, that “something else” is _NOT_ pedophilia. A fantastic wit or innate sense of style? Well, that’s certainly possible… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/143 "2011-02-26T22:36:25Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Why is the current Russian murder rate astronomically high? (As high, or higher than the black American murder rate?) > > Why is the murder rate in Barbados lower than some European countries? > > Why has the black American murder rate varied over the course of the last century, being lower than the white American murder rate in the 1930’s? > > Demonstrate, with relevant citations, that black Americans are a single “race” as opposed to an admixed population with rates of African, European, and Native American ancestry which vary from individual to individual. I’ll wait. 😃 > > Why bother promoting racialist pseudoscience when it’s been repeatedly debunked? And what does it say about whites that as a group they produce nearly all the serial killers known? Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/144 "2011-02-26T23:17:42Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Why has the black American murder rate varied over the course of the last century, being lower than the white American murder rate in the 1930’s? > > debunked? Are you including abortions? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/145 "2011-02-26T23:20:28Z")
> [@Assi](#): > > Are you including abortions? Abortions aren’t a crime in America. And they certainly aren’t murder. This should be common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/146 "2011-02-26T23:31:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Abortions aren’t a crime in America. And they certainly aren’t murder. > > This should be common knowledge. Before 1973 abortions were illegal in most of the 50 states. But I know you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/147 "2011-02-26T23:33:53Z")
You going to follow me around the forum like a good lil puppy dog? Kinda feels like home already. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/148 "2011-02-26T23:35:12Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Different racial groups differ as much and in the same way as sub species of various animal species, and different breeds of domestic animals. Factually incorrect. Different subspecies don’t regularly interbreed. Pretty much every Black person in the US has some European ancestry. Different breeds of domestic animals are (generally) prevented from mating with each other in order to maintain the purity of the breed. No such effort is made in the case of humans. We’ve been over this dozens of times, but let me repeat: Human variation is clinal in nature. Subspecies are defined by distinct, genetically isolated populations. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/149 "2011-02-26T23:40:45Z")
> [@Assi](#): > > Before 1973 abortions were illegal in most of the 50 states. But I know you knew that. Of course. This doesn’t explain why you are working under the mistaken impression that abortion should be counted on the murder statistics. > [@Assi](#): > > You going to follow me around the forum like a good lil puppy dog? > > Kinda feels like home already. I appreciate the recognition, but there are only so many threads moving at this moment. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/150 "2011-02-27T00:11:04Z")
> [@Assi](#): > > Before 1973 abortions were illegal in most of the 50 states. But I know you knew that. Sure. But the crime wasn’t murder, it was abortion of a fetus, which was unlawful. Even now the laws against killing an unborn human are not defined as murder, but as various specialized “killing a fetus unlawfully” laws. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/151 "2011-02-27T00:13:31Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Why do Republican spokesmen like Limbaugh and Hannity argue that the fact it’s cold in Washington today disproves claims regarding global temperature trends over decades? Because they assume that the people paying attention to them aren’t particularly bright or well-informed and therefore believe that “global warming = worldwide summertime all year long”. Whether they are right or not, I decline to speculate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/152 "2011-02-27T00:26:39Z")
Well, yes, that’s why they do _that_, but _why_ do they do it, why do they scream “fraud”, if not to marginalize climatologists and their findings? Isn’t that an attempt at suppressing the facts? What does **New Deal Democrat** think the purpose of all that is? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/153 "2011-02-27T00:27:39Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The fact that most liberals do not want to even hear or read about high rates of black crime, and inferior black academic performance, and the fact that they angrily reject a biological explanation for these characteristics calls into question the claim. I dont’ reject a biological explanation; issues in the black community can definitely be traced to biology. As a result of the biological fact of being black, black people’s _experience_ in the United States of America is much more likely to be very negative in many respects, owing to the fact that many non-black people make false and negative assumptions about them because of their blackness. These _experiences_ frequently lead or contribute to negative consequences of many kinds. But black people raised in a healthy, normal, non-racist environment by people who have also been raised in healthy, normal, non-racist environment do not show any greater propensity to be stupid or criminal than white or Asian people do. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/154 "2011-02-27T00:49:06Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > But black people raised in a healthy, normal, non-racist environment by people who have also been raised in healthy, normal, non-racist environment do not show any greater propensity to be stupid or criminal than white or Asian people do. So you are saying not to let them run in packs, and to keep them seperated, right. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/155 "2011-02-27T01:22:26Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Different racial groups differ as much and in the same way as sub species of various animal species, and different breeds of domestic animals. I’m sorry but that is one of the dumbest things I’ve read on this forum and anyone who honestly believes that claptrap has no business making judgements on the merits of\* The Bell Curve.\* ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/156 "2011-02-27T01:29:57Z")
> [@Assi](#): > > So you are saying not to let them run in packs, and to keep them seperated, right. Are you proudly racist then? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/157 "2011-02-27T03:25:38Z")
> [@Assi](#): > > So you are saying not to let them run in packs, and to keep them seperated, right. I can’t even figure out how you arrive at that facetiously, much less sincerely. It in no way relates to what I said. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/158 "2011-02-27T08:10:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > But black people raised in a healthy, normal, non-racist environment by people who have also been raised in healthy, normal, non-racist environment do not show any greater propensity to be stupid or criminal than white or Asian people do. I am not sure how you could substantiate that comment. Blacks have a murder rate that is over seven times the white rate. Even when they live in upper middle class neighborhoods, and attend good schools they tend to do less well than whites. Whites respond negatively to blacks we do not know because we accurately associate they with crime and low intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/159 "2011-02-27T08:43:09Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Whites respond negatively to blacks we do not know because we accurately associate they with crime and low intelligence. _You_ might associate they (sic) with crime and low intelligence, but don’t propose to speak for this white guy. I’ve lived in Oakland pretty much all my life, and I can honestly say the only people I associate with crime are criminals and the ones I associate with low intelligence are stupid people. They’re pretty easy to spot. Even on message boards. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383/160 "2011-02-27T14:46:11Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > _You_ might associate they (sic) with crime and low intelligence, but don’t propose to speak for this white guy. I’ve lived in Oakland pretty much all my life, and I can honestly say the only people I associate with crime are criminals and the ones I associate with low intelligence are stupid people. They’re pretty easy to spot. Even on message boards. In Oakland there were 12.89 violent crimes committed last year per 1,000 residents, and 56.20 property crimes. > **[Oakland, CA Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout](https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/oakland/crime)** > > Most accurate 2021 crime rates for Oakland, CA. Your chance of being a victim of violent crime in Oakland is 1 in 28 and property crime is 1 in 10. Compare Oakland crime data to other cities, states, and neighborhoods in the U.S. on... In nearby San Francisco there were 7.44 violent crimes per 1,000 residents, and 47.85 property crimes. > **[San Francisco Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout](https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime)** > > Most accurate 2021 crime rates for San Francisco, CA. Your chance of being a victim of violent crime in San Francisco is 1 in 142 and property crime is 1 in 18. Compare San Francisco crime data to other cities, states, and neighborhoods in the U.S.... At the bottom of the San Francisco Bay is San Jose. In San Jose there were 3.79 violent crimes per 1,000 residents, and 25.87 property crimes. [San Jose Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout](http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-jose/crime/) In Oakland the black population is 30.8%. > **[Oakland, California](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California)** > > Oakland is a city in the East Bay region of the San Francisco Bay Area in the U.S. state of California. It is the county seat of and the most populous city in Alameda County, with a population of 440,646 in 2020. A major West Coast port, Oakland is the most populous city in the East Bay, the third most populous city in the Bay Area, and the eighth most populous city in California. It serves as the Bay Area's trade center: the Port of Oakland is the busiest port in Northern California, and the In San Francisco the black population is 7.3%. > **[San Francisco | Demographics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Demographics)** > > The 2020 United States census showed San Francisco's population to be 873,965, an increase of 8.5% from the 2010 census. With roughly one-quarter the population density of Manhattan, San Francisco is the second-most densely populated large American city, behind only New York City among cities greater than 200,000 population, and the fifth-most densely populated U.S. county, following only four of the five New York City boroughs. > San Francisco is part of the five-county San Francisco–Oakland–Hayw... In San Jose the black population is 3.0%. > **[San Jose, California | Demographics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose,_California#Demographics)** > > In 2022, the US Census Bureau released its new population estimates. With a total population of 971,233, San Jose showed a 4.1% decline in population since the 2020 census. San Jose became the second US city in history (After Detroit) that used to have a population of more than one million but dropped back under one million. Some reasons for this decline are people leaving the area for more affordable cities and more remote working opportunities. Because liberals choose to ignore the relationship between a high black population and a high crime rate, it cannot be said that they respect facts more than conservatives. Liberals and conservatives tend to ignore, or even be ignorant of, facts that conflict with their policy goals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-liberals-really-more-evolved-than-conservatives-scientific-study-suggests-answer-is-yes/572383.md?page=9)