# Are low-income parents usually this disinterested in their kid's school? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153 "2012-09-28T16:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/41 "2012-09-28T20:29:21Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > There are a lot of places like that, but that’s not the same as hundreds of people traveling to away games. Maybe. Most of the away games my school went to were within a half hour’s drive. Going to an away game took essentially the same amount of time and effort as going to a home game, so the visitor stands were usually pretty full. The one year the team was actually good, they were usually overflowing. > [@pullin](#): > > I had heard that parental participation in low income areas was bad. But I was surprised it was \*\*this \*\*bad. Sitting in bleachers is not participation, especially when _other peoples’ kids_ are the ones playing. Yes, lots of people enjoy going to the games just because, but obviously these people don’t. It’s not a measure of their participation, because sitting at a football game is inherently non-participatory. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/42 "2012-09-28T21:10:02Z")
It was forty years ago, but parents (and kids) in my high school in New York didn’t give a crap about football. We were big - there were 1500 in my graduating class, and when I was there they tried to start a football team by selling season tickets. They sold fewer than 10 and gave up. We had a diverse student population, but at the time we had the highest test scores of any high school in New York that you didn’t need a test to get into. So I’d say parents were reasonably involved. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/43 "2012-09-28T21:10:42Z")
That’s why I was asking him to be more specific regarding what he meant by “participation.” ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/44 "2012-09-28T21:11:02Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Not really. If you have 40 football players, 12 cheerleaders and 60 band members, that’s 112 kids. Maybe 15% of the kids would have 1 parents attend. I don’t count cheerleaders or band members. Playing at the football game is not what those participating in are doing it for. They’re going to cheerleading competitions and band competitions. So if you’ve got 40 football players that’s only 60 live-in parents (assuming half the kids have divorced parents). So 19 is a little less than 50%, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/45 "2012-09-28T21:19:01Z")
> [@AdmiralQ](#): > > They just had the first parent-teacher conference of the new school year, and how many parents showed up - after school and working hours, . Does anybody else think that the casual use of “working hours” throughout this thread speaks of a hell of a lot of white collar middle class entitlement? You do realize that, say, 7 PM is most certainly working hours for a good many people. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/46 "2012-09-28T21:34:19Z")
I’ve had three kids who went through high school. That’s 12 parent-years of concerts, junior and senior varsity games in multiple sports, class musicals, chauffeuring the kids back and forth to other extracurricular activities, etc. etc. That’s in addition to parent-teacher conferences, PTO meetings, booster meetings, working the fund-raising booth at this and that event and so on. Trust me, you can’t judge parental involvement by who does or doesn’t show up in the stands at a given game. > [@Voyager](#): > > It was forty years ago, but parents (and kids) in my high school in New York didn’t give a crap about football. We were big - there were 1500 in my graduating class, and when I was there they tried to start a football team by selling season tickets. They sold fewer than 10 and gave up. We had a diverse student population, but at the time we had the highest test scores of any high school in New York that you didn’t need a test to get into. So I’d say parents were reasonably involved. It’s been 40 years since I was in high school, too. In my nice, suburban, middle-class high school, football and basketball games were for the students, not the parents. We had more faculty members in the stands than parents. I also remember one game against an inner-city high school where that team didn’t even have a bus. The players had to get out to the suburbs however they could – catching a ride with someone, public transportation (always chancy on a weekend), and I know of one player who hitchiked. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/47 "2012-09-28T21:41:52Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Does anybody else think that the casual use of “working hours” throughout this thread speaks of a hell of a lot of white collar middle class entitlement? You do realize that, say, 7 PM is most certainly working hours for a good many people. Meh. 9 to 5 are pretty well established “working hours” and whenever I’ve worked a job that wasn’t 9 to 5, if you needed a night free, you found someone to cover. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/48 "2012-09-28T21:46:51Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Does anybody else think that the casual use of “working hours” throughout this thread speaks of a hell of a lot of white collar middle class entitlement? You do realize that, say, 7 PM is most certainly working hours for a good many people. 7:00 PM on a Friday is working hours for some, but that is still the exception. Bluntly, in Texas and similar states, if you go to your boss about having Friday off for the High School Football game - you will get the time off (yes, in exchange for Saturday). I went to high school in a low income rural town. Our Football stadium was standing room only for some games. It was the social event of a Friday night. Only half of that crowd would travel to games usually, depending on location. I would hypothesize that there is a correlation between lack of parental support for the football team, band and cheerleaders and parental support for academic activities as well. 19 parents showing up for the team (a Football team usually has 50 players), the cheerleaders (typical squad of 10+), and the band (another 50 musicians) is SAD. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/49 "2012-09-28T21:50:59Z")
I wanted to add this link - one of my favorite ever articles about a high school football game. Now excuse me, I got something in my eye. > **[Rick Reilly: Gainesville State high school football gets the best gift of...](https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3789373)** > > There are some games in which cheering for the other side feels better than winning. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/50 "2012-09-28T22:00:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It was forty years ago, but parents (and kids) in my high school in New York didn’t give a crap about football. We were big - there were 1500 in my graduating class, and when I was there they tried to start a football team by selling season tickets. They sold fewer than 10 and gave up. We had a diverse student population, but at the time we had the highest test scores of any high school in New York that you didn’t need a test to get into. So I’d say parents were reasonably involved. Same thing when I went to high school in NY 35 years ago- and when my son graduated 4 years ago. High school sports are not that important in urban areas and it’s not restricted to low-income parents. There are probably a number of reasons- everything from the fact that there may be better teams to follow ( I live in NYC with 4 professional baseball teams- why would I go to a high school game if my kid wasn’t playing) to are more entertainment options to the fact that city kids tend to be more independent and may not want their parents there. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/51 "2012-09-28T22:01:55Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I went to high school in a low income rural town. Our Football stadium was standing room only for some games. It was the social event of a Friday night. Only half of that crowd would travel to games usually, depending on location. Same in my experience. Years and years of grads attend games, and I’ve been invited to and attended all sorts of sports, dance, and band recitals with friends to cheer for their kids. Traffic parks up to a mile and a half away from the stadium; the Junior Civitan borrows parking lots of local businesses to “sell” good parking spaces in order to collect revenue for good works and good deeds. Wealthy city kids, poor farm kids, poor inner city kids, and kids from the local projects are also in attendance, and judging by the cars in the parking lot and the clothing and other status symbols (or lack thereof): multiple generations from the whole town turn out for school events. It’s a nice way to socialize with all different socio-economic groups. Team spirit is a real thing. I hate the piano, but I’ve been to fifteen or so recitals in the last twenty years, because I was invited to sit with proud friends. Not a fan of watching basketball: same. It’s a social thing as well as a way to let kids know you care about what they do. You don’t have to like sports to cheer for your kids. You don’t have to have kids to attend and cheer for your friend’s kids. I’ve heard “Sarah’s parents couldn’t be here tonight, let’s cheer for her.” And man, do we ever. It’s important to those kids. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/52 "2012-09-28T22:11:17Z")
Have I missed a section of this thread somehow? $8 to watch a high school football game?! As a teacher at an inner city school in London, I know that no matter how much some of our parents might want to come to a sporting event, there are plenty of them who simply could not afford £8 to do so, especially if it meant missing time at work (and therefore more money - assume maybe three hours at minimum wage plus the ticket, and it’s cost you near enough £25!) as well. I wish I was exaggerating, but especially to a single parent with a teenage boy, even £8 is a significant expense. Have you SEEN how much they eat?! And don’t mention the way they grow out of things, break stuff, etc. I don’t know, maybe some of the parents thought having food on the table was a better show of love and support than turning up to watch a game? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/53 "2012-09-28T22:29:43Z")
I disagree that watching a game is non-participatory. You aren’t alone in the stands–there are other parents and teachers and students and administrators there. There’s a lot of talking and socializing. It’s not the only way to participate in a kids’ education, but a parent who knows a kid’s teachers, principals, friends, and friend’s parents is much more aware of what is going on and is in a much better place to be supportive. Not being there doesn’t mean a parent isn’t involved–there’s more than one way to skin this cat–but parents who go are participating in a community. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/54 "2012-09-28T22:39:12Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I disagree that watching a game is non-participatory. You aren’t alone in the stands–there are other parents and teachers and students and administrators there. Well, 18 or fewer of any of those people in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/55 "2012-09-29T00:20:44Z")
Funny, because here I am trying to decide whether I should go see the football game tonight. My son is in the marching band, and I’ve made a few games, but I’m not planning to go to them all. If I take my other 3 kids, that would be $32, plus at least that much again in food and drinks. That’s a chunk of change - over $60! I can imagine for working parents, that would be the amount to pay the water bill and couldn’t be wasted. And I certainly don’t think of this as a way to support my son academically. Weird idea. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/56 "2012-09-29T00:41:21Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Funny, because here I am trying to decide whether I should go see the football game tonight. My son is in the marching band, and I’ve made a few games, but I’m not planning to go to them all. If I take my other 3 kids, that would be $32, plus at least that much again in food and drinks. That’s a chunk of change - over $60! > > I can imagine for working parents, that would be the amount to pay the water bill and couldn’t be wasted. And I certainly don’t think of this as a way to support my son academically. Weird idea. It is different for different U.S. subcultures. In Texas and Louisiana small towns (those are the one I can speak about personally), football games are a community event on Friday night and everyone is expected to attend even for the away games. You also get the strange phenomenon of poor kids (especially poor black kids) who are exceptional athletes and are heavily recruited by top colleges but you never see their parents at any events or anywhere else except for the top of the page of the local newspaper for an arrest. Their very talented progeny has a way out because of athletic skill but the families don’t usually know what to do with that or know what it can mean. The ones that take advantage of the opportunity (and I have known more than a few), do it on their own. Their coaches and teachers usually serve as stand-in parents those select few that make it. ---
**Author:** ![InsomniaMama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ad7895/32.png) [@InsomniaMama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InsomniaMama)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/57 "2012-09-29T01:40:19Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I still think that more parents should of showed up but I have to admit it’s not as bad as I was saying it was before. I’m going to let it go, I swear, but should HAVE. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/58 "2012-09-29T03:33:09Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > This year, the district lineups and schedules changed and matched our local high school with an “inner-city” school (for lack of a better term). We traveled to play the home team in a low-income part of the city, and the involvement level really surprised me. I understand that low income parents have a lot of limitations regarding jobs and hours, and there will be less involvement at these schools, but what I saw was astonishing. It wasn’t that there were fewer parents around, there were almost _none_. > > We rolled in as our typical entourage and almost completely filled the guest bleachers. If it wasn’t for the large number of parents working with the band, cheerleaders, football team, and dance team, we would’ve overflowed. This is typical for an away game for us. Doing a little math while looking at the stands, my best guess would 500-600 supporters. > > Contrast this with the home team. At kickoff there were 19 people in their stands. Seriously, I counted. We had more parents on load crew than they had for the entire school. And this was a home game for them. Both were 4A schools (~1500 students). > > Is parental involvement in low-income areas really this bad? One of our teachers at the game told me this was typical, but I find it amazing. Even assuming half the kids are in single-parent households, that’s still less than 1% of the parents showing up. Supporting the local school athletics program and being concerned about the school and the quality education it provides to the students are not the same thing. In fact in some cases they are even incompatiable. In my area, very few people show up for games because there is an active campaign to cut down the athletic expenditures and put the funding where it’s badly needed like more classrooms, more resources in the library, more teachers, more vocational courses, etc. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/59 "2012-09-29T03:55:45Z")
I can’t speak for Texas, but I taught in rural south Georgia for 26 years. Both schools I worked at had a wide range of students attending, economically speaking. Turnout to meet-the-teacher night was great for the higher-income parents and next to nothing for the low-income ones. Both schools I taught in were the only schools in the whole county for those grade levels, which meant quite a trip for some to attend. I was a band parent for a couple of years and traveled with them to away games. The band was huge- about 250- and it was pretty much the higher income parents who traveled to the away games. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/60 "2012-09-29T04:09:54Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It sounds strange but it is more common that you think. Cheerleading is a competitive sport in some places and even has national tournaments. It is like a combination of team dancing and gymnastics. The people that I know that were heavily involved with it didn’t like to cheer for other sports teams either. There are competitive cheerleading squads that don’t cheer at any games. Don’t feel bad. I played HS football and I HATED you guys. Constant annoying sounds… cheers JUST above the bottom of my pain threshold. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153.md?page=4)