# Are low-income parents usually this disinterested in their kid's school? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153 "2012-09-28T16:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/121 "2012-09-30T15:50:33Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > How is it misguided? I understand clearly how it all works - I think it’s shameful that so much effort goes into something that is marginal in these kids’ success at best, while many, many other kids are so lacking in opportunity. > > There is no confusion on my part - I just think it’s a shitty choice on where they spend their resources. The rewards of self discipline, exercise, friendships that extend beyond one’s age group are vast, as are the rewards of recreation and hobbies in general. What prevents parents and boosters from funding academic pursuits? I’m guessing a lack of interest or experience with teamwork and enthusiasm derived from team spirit, but I don’t have a site for that. I realize that a majority of this board’s member have an intellectual bent, but that’s no excuse for the blind spot to the benefits of physical recreation here. It feels very biased and one-way, as no one is discouting the benefits of academic achievement here. Kids can’t participate in school supported extracurricular activities unless their grades are above average. These activities are an “also” not “or”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/122 "2012-09-30T15:59:26Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Some of the post are liked that, yes. Others are not. I think you’re defensively reading that into it. > [@](#): > > You’re shifting the goal posts on me. It wasn’t a matter of your parents being unable to make it to every single one of your concerts but the fact that they elected not to go at all. The school orchestra didn’t represent the entirety of my existence at that age. I was very close to my parents; we weren’t neglected or ignored. My parents did a lot of stuff with me and for me during my childhood and education. After I was able to get to school orchestra concerts on my own, that was no longer a priority for them to attend. There’s nothing sad about that or pitiable. My parents were there for me in a lot of ways, but school orchestra concerts just weren’t that important for them to attend once I got older. It wasn’t important for them or for me. For you to conclude that that’s sad on the basis that “orchestra concerts were a big deal for me” shows an inability or unwillingness to accept that different people might have different priorities, interests, desires, etc. School orchestra concerts _weren’t_ a big deal for me. It was an opportunity for me to play and hang out with my peers. It didn’t matter to me whether my parents were there. Insisting that my parents attend those concerts would have been akin to insisting that my parents be spectators at my Dungeons and Dragons playing sessions. However, my parents _did_ attend performances of my community orchestra. That _was_ a big deal. You had to audition to get in; the members came from the entire metro area; we played in prominent venues; and the orchestra (unlike my school orchestra) was good and drew audience from the entire community (not just parents). That’s actually part of the problem in the OP and in this thread. There are people who refuse to acknowledge that families can legitimately make priorities in different ways. A: Attending football might not be a very big priority for a poor family that has many other concerns. B: But that’s sad! A: That’s not necessarily sad. Here’s a list of many other things that might be more important than football. Football is just a game anyway. Why is it necessarily so important? B: Why are you attacking people who like football? It’s the _OP_ that’s giving high school football some degree of significance and trying to force that value on the rest of us. For the record, I didn’t attend one single school athletic event when I was in high school. Not one. And half my friends were in the marching band. I was forced to attend a couple of pep rallies and I resented it. No one ever had a mandatory pep rally for the activities _I_ was interested in, and I wouldn’t even have wanted one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/123 "2012-09-30T16:00:51Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Hopefully I haven’t belabored the point, but high school football is huge here. In our case at least, a substantial portion of this stuff comes from serious sweat-equity on the part of the parents. School funding doesn’t provide props, trucks, equipment nor any of the workers in the concession stands and other areas. This is all volunteer stuff, and parent participation is pretty intense (and somewhat expected). Out of curiosity, what city/ISD are you in? What you’re describing sounds like the extremes of what you might see in the D/FW area; like say… Highland Park or Frisco Wakeland playing Dallas Spruce or Ft. Worth Trimble Tech. And, in my experience, predominantly Hispanic schools don’t value football; you’d get a lot more turnout for soccer or baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/124 "2012-09-30T16:09:19Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > No, that’s “working hours” for white collar office workers. You may have noticed that anywhere you go on a Friday night at 7:00, there are people WORKING there. Hell, stick around your own office until 7:00 on a Friday and you’re bound to notice that there are people working there. Your recycling bin isn’t self-emptying. Really? So my mechanic is a white collar worker? There are plenty of blue collar workers with “regular” working hours. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/125 "2012-09-30T16:10:14Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Really? So my mechanic is a white collar worker? There are plenty of blue collar workers with “regular” working hours. Sure there are. Perhaps now you can explain how that in any way negates my point. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/126 "2012-09-30T16:11:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > For you to conclude that that’s sad on the basis that “orchestra concerts were a big deal for me” shows an inability or unwillingness to accept that different people might have different priorities, interests, desires, etc. School orchestra concerts _weren’t_ a big deal for me. I accept it. I just think it’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/127 "2012-09-30T16:15:29Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Sure there are. Perhaps now you can explain how that in any way negates my point. Okay. > [@](#): > > No, that’s “working hours” for white collar office workers. It’s also working hours for quite a few blue collar workers. So I’m not sure what exactly your point is. Some people work after regular hours. Well, duh. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/128 "2012-09-30T16:18:36Z")
Sigh. My (incredibly simple) point was that there’s a whole world of people whose “regular” work schedules fall outside of “regular office hours” which makes it difficult for them to attend school activities, and that Justin was dismissing that. You actually seem to have grasped that just fine, while nonetheless feeling the need to nitpick an irrelevant detail. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/129 "2012-09-30T16:19:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I accept it. I just think it’s sad. Okay, then I’ll say that I think it’s sad that you had so little going on in your life that school orchestra concerts were such a big deal. Sad, I say! What an empty, barren childhood! It’s a tragedy! I have to stop typing for my tears are obscuring my vision! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/130 "2012-09-30T16:25:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Okay, then I’ll say that I think it’s sad that you had so little going on in your life that school orchestra concerts were such a big deal. Sad, I say! What an empty, barren childhood! It’s a tragedy! I have to stop typing for my tears are obscuring my vision! That’s fine. I accept that too. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/131 "2012-09-30T16:27:43Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > No, it’s cultural. You’re talking about the parents supporting their kid. The parents of the Quarterback supporting the Quarterback. > > That wasn’t the OP’s question, if you notice. The OP’s question was about the kid’s _school_. ``` It is cultural , but the OP thought it showed not only a lack of identification with a school as a social institution , but also a lack of parental involvement. And the OP didn't seem to consider that it might be cultural.Take your SO's example - where he had "no kids in the school". Where I live , you couldn't even say someone had "no kids in the school" unless you had previously specified which school you were talking about. Kids on my block could be attending any one of about six elementary/middle schools within walking distance or any number of other schools that are closer to their parents' jobs or afterschool care, or that serve a particular type of student. And when they get to high school age, they might attend any high school in NYC. ( there are at least 600) My kids attended different high schools at the same time. I'm sure that the inner city in the OPs example doesn't have quite that many choices , but there are consequences that follow from having a choice of schools , or even having a number of schools in a town or city. For example, if there is one school in your town, and nearly every kid attends it, then for the most part your neighbors and even the kids you meet in extracurricular activities outside of school will be your schoolmates. Not true here - the kids on my son's sports teams attended different schools ,the kids who sang in the church choir with my daughter came from different schools ,etc. In some places, identifying with a school is the same as identifying with a town and your neighbors, but not here. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/132 "2012-09-30T16:27:53Z")
Wouldn’t it make more sense for both if us to accept that our families, priorities, and lives were sufficiently different that it makes no sense for either if us to think that this one little thing is a sufficient basis to think that the other is sad? ---
**Author:** ![Patience\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@Patience\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patience_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/133 "2012-09-30T16:28:51Z")
Good God. The casual, habitual lack of empathy of the entitled is exasperating. This thread is simultaneously pushing almost every button I have. Thank Christ I’m an adult without children, as being confronted daily with this sports and “school spirit” bullshit would no doubt send me over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/134 "2012-09-30T16:53:50Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Well the school can stop trying to make me feel guilty for not wanting to play with the Mean Girls, I suppose. If their help is better, more productive, more gung ho and organized and generous - more valuable, in other words - than **moejoe** ’s and mine, then that’s fine. Just stop sending home notes begging for me to come in and help out if my help isn’t really required or welcomed. > > **moejoe** , yeah, I feel about as big as a quark when I go near that Parent Association sharktank. (they’ve taken the Teachers entirely out of it at our school; it’s just the Parent Association now) Should the school really play hall monitor to make sure all the parents play nice? They want to encourage parental involvement because it provides kids with more opportunities. You’d really feel better if they only sent out invites and notices to the “right” parents? > [@Peremensoe](#): > > I think the relevance of **moejoe** ’s point is to the motivations of the sort of parents (in some places) who are both affluent enough and inclined to be regular boosters. They are not “saints.” Their boosterism is about _their own_ fulfillment and status, not about improving the school and school community per se. Sure, the school is better in some ways with their help than with nobody’s–but it’s not hard to imagine that it could be better still, in more ways for more kids, if there were a different dynamic. My own experiences here are different. My school has a radical economic divide: 65% of our kids are free-or-reduced lunch, and about 15% of them live in half-million dollar homes. Very, very few fall in the middle. I can’t tell you how much the involved parents improve the prospects of at least some of the poor kids. Many disadvantaged kids participate in the activities we have and not only to they have a more fulfilling, more educational, more valuable education, they also learn how to ape middle class mannerisms and class-indicators, and go to college much more likely to be successful. I have personally seen the full cycle here: kids from horrible poverty–like work in high school and turn over their entire paycheck to their parents to help pay the bills poverty–who get involved, make friends from a wide spectrum of society, go to college, do well, and are now helping to support their families while building their own secure life. Are some of those parents motivated by sheer ego? Sure. Probably some people volunteering at soup kitchens are also motivated by sheer ego. It still helps people get fed. I’ve seen high schools with no sense of community, no parent support. They are not better serving their kids and I think the fact that all the parents feel equally unwelcome and uninvolved is a poor trade-off. > [@doreen](#): > > No, but sometimes it would be better if those people didn’t help. Still doesn’t mean that parents that try to be involved, who support their kids’ schools, are somehow bad people because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/135 "2012-09-30T16:55:12Z")
> [@Patience\_Jones](#): > > Good God. The casual, habitual lack of empathy of the entitled is exasperating. > > This thread is simultaneously pushing almost every button I have. Thank Christ I’m an adult without children, as being confronted daily with this sports and “school spirit” bullshit would no doubt send me over the edge. You know what unites entitled kids with those from middle and lower income kids? Teamwork and extracurricular activities. You know who benefits from parental and booster involvement in extracurricular activities? Upper, middle, and lower income kids who want to play. This thread isn’t about the haves and have nots. It’s a discussion about an apparent lack of parental interest in kids’ lives. Not a joiner? That’s cool. This discussion shouldn’t concern you. ---
**Author:** ![Patience\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@Patience\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patience_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/136 "2012-09-30T16:58:50Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > You know what unites entitled kids with those from middle and lower income kids? Teamwork and extracurricular activities. Not in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/137 "2012-09-30T16:59:19Z")
> [@Patience\_Jones](#): > > Good God. The casual, habitual lack of empathy of the entitled is exasperating. Next you’re going to start complaining that someone’s post is dripping with privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Patience\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@Patience\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patience_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/138 "2012-09-30T17:03:48Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Next you’re going to start complaining that someone’s post is dripping with privilege. Perhaps you should consider using your exceptional psychic abilities to begin a career earning millions, nay – billions, of dollars which you could then use to bolster up high school football programs. Sounds as if some still don’t have full time staff to see to the players’ every need. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/139 "2012-09-30T17:06:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wouldn’t it make more sense for both if us to accept that our families, priorities, and lives were sufficiently different that it makes no sense for either if us to think that this one little thing is a sufficient basis to think that the other is sad? It might have been a little easier had you explained your particular situation from the beginning. You say that your parents stopped coming to your concerts once you could drive. Why wouldn’t I find that sad? You then go on to add a bunch of new information. There was no explanation for why your parents didn’t go to your school concerts. If you had provided that information with your first post it’s likely I would have come to a different conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153/140 "2012-09-30T17:07:41Z")
> [@Patience\_Jones](#): > > Perhaps you should consider using your exceptional psychic abilities to begin a career earning millions, nay – billions, of dollars which you could then use to bolster up high school football programs. Sounds as if some still don’t have full time staff to see to the players’ every need. Sylvia Browne won’t return my phone calls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-low-income-parents-usually-this-disinterested-in-their-kids-school/636153.md?page=8)