# Are Luxury German Cars Better Cars? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167 "2010-12-14T21:43:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/41 "2010-12-18T20:42:28Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > As long as we’re making predictions, let me make one. Without knowing you, it’s pretty obvious, at least to me, that you’ll turn out to be a sarcastic, sad loser who’ll never be able to experience the pleasure of driving a fine piece of machinery. Turn out to be? Dude, I’m already _there_! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/42 "2010-12-18T20:43:46Z")
**Tamerlane** , as always, you are the voice of reason and moderation. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/43 "2010-12-18T21:36:05Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > As long as we’re making predictions, let me make one. Without knowing you, it’s pretty obvious, at least to me, that you’ll turn out to be a sarcastic, sad loser who’ll never be able to experience the pleasure of driving a fine piece of machinery. Q: what’s the difference between a moose and a German car? A: The moose’s asshole is on its outside. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/44 "2010-12-18T21:53:01Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Many decades ago, Cadillac was the iconic American luxury car. Then in the 70’s and 80’s they put out some crap (remember the Cimarron?), and while they lost some reputation and lost some sales, the word “Cadillac” was still used as an indicator of class and luxury. I think to some extent this is the case with high-end German cars. They aren’t as wonderful as they used to be, but their names still have some cachet from what they did in the 50’s/60’s/70’s. > > I would say they are overengineered. Some people appreciate some facets of that (e.g., exceptional handling); others deplore some facets (e.g. ridiculously high maintenance/repair costs). So they’re worth more to the afficionado who willing to pay for a certain type of driving experience, worth more to the status-seeker who sees them as iconic, not worth more to the average Joe who wants reliable, affordable transportation. Some things are just retarded like putting the starter under the intake or having to tear a dashboard out because 2 cents worth of plastic broke on a heater door assembly. I think most of the cost of luxury cars are for the specialized engineering needed to make them hard to work on. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/45 "2010-12-18T23:08:22Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I lived in Germany many years, and for Germans a Mercedes is no more classy for them than owning a Chrysler is for Americans. I rented a Mercedes crossover SUV of some type last year in The Netherlands. It was basically a run-of-the-mill, “me too” crossover SUV. The fit and finish wasn’t nearly as good as (say) in a Ford Edge (comparable vehicle), and the satnav was completely unfriendly. It was a gasoline vehicle (not diesel, surprisingly) and got crappy, horrible mileage. The NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) was disappointing. That one vehicle has forever spoiled any positive feelings I may have previously had for “luxury” Mercedes vehicles. The year before, I’d rented an Opel crossover station wagon in Germany. Opel is a GM product, for which I have very low regard. There’s not really a US car I could compare it to, but man, I loved it! It was diesel, and according to the onboard computer it yielded 43 US mpg despite driving it like an asshole for three weeks. The fit and finish and NVH were better than I’d ever seen on a US GM product. > [@](#): > > Oddly, status cars in Germany were American cars - simply because they cost more and looked different. Mercedes and BMW’s in Germany are simply the local everyday car - and Germans have a higher expectation of quality and technology when coughing up the Euros to buy them. I didn’t see a lot of American cars in Germany (i.e., genuinely American, that is. Lots of Fords, but those are European Fords, not American Fords). In France, though, and ironically (I thought) there were lots and lots and lots of American SUV’s. I mean _real_ body-on-frame SUV’s. And for some strange reason, lots of Chrysler 300’s. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/46 "2010-12-19T00:34:02Z")
It doesn’t matter. And you really can’t quantitatively state. All modern cars, plus or minus the error-bars on the statistics gathering are Good, and reliable. A manufacturer would have to have a significant percentage of thier cars CATCH FIRE (Ferrari anyone?) to get a truly deserved bad rap. Everything else is based on emotions and perceptions and how much money you care to devote to wheeled things. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/47 "2010-12-19T02:48:33Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > A manufacturer would have to have a significant percentage of thier cars CATCH FIRE (Ferrari anyone?) to get a truly deserved bad rap. Or, you know, have their brakes fail while the engine computer decides to accelerate for some unknown reason. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/48 "2010-12-19T06:10:55Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > … And for some strange reason, lots of Chrysler 300’s. Made in, Austria IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/49 "2010-12-19T12:11:35Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Made in, Austria IIRC. I think all LX cars are built in Brampton Assy. A few markets with import restrictions get CKD kits from Brampton, but not for most of Europe. Graz did/does build minivans and the older Grand Cherokee. ETA: nope, apparently I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/50 "2010-12-19T14:16:57Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Or, you know, have their brakes fail while the engine computer decides to accelerate for some unknown reason. Much like the last time (Audi), user error. And occasionally fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/51 "2010-12-19T14:50:14Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Or, you know, have their brakes fail while the engine computer decides to accelerate for some unknown reason. In all seriousness, it anyone here experiences that, hit the “off” button and hold it for down for 3+ seconds. That 3 seconds will undoubtedly seem like an eternity. (this is for the keyless cars) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/52 "2010-12-19T17:23:22Z")
For all other cars: put it in neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zany_Zeolite_Zipper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/53 "2010-12-19T23:12:26Z")
Or, you know, take your foot off the “brakes” and put it on the peddle directly to the left of the “brakes”. In almost all cases that will take the scary speed away. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/54 "2010-12-19T23:36:45Z")
> [@Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](#): > > Or, you know, take your foot off the “brakes” and put it on the peddle directly to the left of the “brakes”. In almost all cases that will take the scary speed away. Ha. You think most people over here have a clutch pedal in their cars? ---
**Author:** ![Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zany_Zeolite_Zipper)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/55 "2010-12-20T00:28:26Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Ha. You think most people over here have a clutch pedal in their cars? The joke is that almost all people who experience an unintended acceleration (UA) are in fact pushing on the gas peddle, although they will claim to know which peddle they were pressing. And as you might expect, if one removes their foot from the gas peddle, and places it on another peddle, further to the left, they might hit the brake peddle. It is unlikely for a driver to select wrongly twice, even considering the low quality expected of a driver who muddles up the peddles. However, should the driver again miss the brake peddle while going too far to the left, s/he may only turn on the high-beams; this might not seem like an improvement over the UA case, but should the driver turn on the headlights (really, really hard), it gives the rest of us a warning to avoid the Toyota, being driven by an old person, with the high-beams on, at a high rate of speed. Unfortunately, most drivers who experience an UA event survive, and do not appreciate being made to look foolish by means of his/her high beams; as a result, car-makers no longer fit floor mounted high beam switches. I do not consider here the possibility that the driver may engage the park brake: even a Toyota driver is not that stupid; on the other hand, the driver of a Korean min-van . . . In conclusion, the joke that I was making derived its humour from the incongruity between the peddle being pressed and the peddle that should be pressed in order to achieve the stated goal of the driver. In next week’s column I discuss the amusement I receive when explaining jokes in an unnecessarily long winded, verbose, and supercilious manner. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/56 "2010-12-20T04:26:05Z")
I hope you’ll also be apologizing for constantly misspelling _pedal_. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/57 "2010-12-20T05:22:07Z")
When I was visiting Hungary, I couldn’t help but notice how many taxi cabs in Budapest were Mercedes Benzes. I still have my dad’s old SL-380, but I’m not convinced it’s any more badass than say, a domestic convertible of the same year. Basically, I look at M-B like Stella Artois; the O-K import that got high class in the trip across the Atlantic. Interesting side note, the driver who was taking us to the little village where my mum’s family was from told us how everyone in Hungary hates American cars. The poor people drive Skodas and Ladas, and the rest, they all drive German cars like Mercedes, BMW, and **FORD**. I spent about a good 20 minutes, in a pre-internet phone era, trying to convince him that Ford was not a German car maker. Good God was that frustrating. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/58 "2010-12-20T07:35:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Interesting side note, the driver who was taking us to the little village where my mum’s family was from told us how everyone in Hungary hates American cars. The poor people drive Skodas and Ladas, and the rest, they all drive German cars like Mercedes, BMW, and FORD. I spent about a good 20 minutes, in a pre-internet phone era, trying to convince him that Ford was not a German car maker. Good God was that frustrating. up until, like, now, Ford of Europe and Ford of North America might as well have been two totally unrelated companies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/59 "2010-12-20T14:45:52Z")
True, although Ford of Europe is much more British than German - that’s where all the R & D and management types are. Mercedes-Benz cars are high class on the other side of the pond, too. Certainly in Western Europe, at any rate. They’ve been able to do something that nobody else really can: retain cachet despite building as many commercial vehicles as they do cars. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167/60 "2010-12-20T17:30:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > True, although Ford of Europe is much more British than German - that’s where all the R & D and management types are. I have the opposite experience. All of our design comes out of Cologne, and every management type (in manufacturing) is there, and not in England. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-luxury-german-cars-better-cars/564167.md?page=4)