# Are Many Americans Too Dependent on Government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134 "2012-09-19T02:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/21 "2012-09-19T21:56:09Z")
Hello, I’m John Bredin and I’m dependent on the government. :eek: I use the roads, sidewalks, and public transit, and I’ve flown on commercial airlines (public airports, air navigation system). Without government infrastructure, I’m fairly convinced I’d be stranded at home. If something in my home catches fire and my fire extinguisher won’t suffice, I’m definitely counting on calling the fire department to keep the whole place – I live in a condo – from going up in flames. Yes, I’m trusting my home and those of my neighbors to unionized government workers. Ditto if I fall and break something or (God forbid!) have some sort of attack – I plan to call (if I can still use a phone) the fire department for an ambulance, rather than driving myself to the hospital or knocking on the neighbor’s door for a ride. Yes, now I’m trusting my life and health to those same unionized government workers. :eek: I don’t grow any of my food, and only rarely eat something that a friend or relative or neighbor grew. In other words, I eat restaurant and supermarket food. I also take medicine that I buy rather than making it myself. Forgive me for [del]living in the 20th Century[/del] not having the rugged individualist spirit of our 18th Century forefathers. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/22 "2012-09-19T22:20:41Z")
Being ‘dependent on government’ in the US is considered socially unacceptable, so even people who are dependent on government are not self aware enough to know it a good deal of the time because nobody wants to admit to possessing traits that make them low status. A lot of Romney’s supporters who likely agree with his statement are elderly people who do not pay income taxes and who collect large amounts of subsidies via medicare and social security. I once heard Bill Maher say something like 40% of people on medicare don’t think they use a single government program. You can’t have a discussion when people lack basic self awareness because self awareness means accepting things people don’t like about themselves. So you are asking a question where people’s emotions get in the way of an honest answer. Besides, what are the alternatives? Dependent on corporations? Dependent on the goodwill of charities? Self reliance? It is a complex intermingling where you can’t draw the line somewhere. People may say ‘I’m self reliant because I have a job’. Yes you do have a job, because you got an education funded by the public sector and because a corporation chose to hire you or if you are self employed, because people choose to buy your services/goods. The average person who graduates from an instate college has collected about 100k in education subsided for K-12 & undergrad education. Plus you have all the private subsides to colleges. If your corporation chooses to fire you in the worst economy since the 1930s, then what? Where do you cleanly draw the line? You can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/23 "2012-09-19T22:29:50Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > No. We are the government. We’re taking care of ourselves. Nicely put. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/24 "2012-09-19T22:34:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It was debunked on last night’s news. 47% of people don’t pay taxes is correct. 40% of the 47% are retired senior citizens. Another 30% are working poor who don’t hit the tax threshold. Another 3% are the very wealthy who shelter their income. So about 35% of the people who don’t pay taxes have legitimate reasons for not doing so and are NOT welfare leeches or slackers. Romney is full of shit. I’m pretty sure Romney is in that 3%, he pays capital gains taxes, not income taxes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/25 "2012-09-20T01:40:32Z")
OP, this is all your fault, for framing your thread title in the form of a question. It appears that there are a significant number of respondents using their poll vote to answer “Are Many Americans Too Dependent on Government?”, when the poll is actually “Do you agree with Romney’s statement?” That statement being: _“there are 47 percent who are with him (Obama), who are dependent upon the government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them.”_ ETA: I’d sure like to see how the fifteen people who said they agree with that manage to find a reason to do so (fourteen, since **shiftless** has copped to the error of answering the wrong question). ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/26 "2012-09-20T13:48:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’d sure like to see how the fifteen people who said they agree with that manage to find a reason to do so Perhaps they’re anarchists. Abolish the military, allow syndications to form which democratically choose new workers and write contracts, get unemployment down to Norwegian levels, form _Ghent_ systems of distributing unemployment benefits in solidarity with those unable to work. Else they could be considering corporate personhood. Many corporations receive tax exemptions (and apparently, not paying taxes is evidence of turpitude and presidential candidates should be unconcerned with their fate). Many corporations are dependent on government grants or bailouts to survive, so perhaps those are the Americans the respondents have in mind. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/27 "2012-09-20T13:49:31Z")
I should mention that all US citizens, and almost everyone on earth is dependent on the US government. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/28 "2012-09-20T19:44:10Z")
This is just the response I expected to get! ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/29 "2012-09-20T22:38:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > OP, this is all your fault, for framing your thread title in the form of a question. Took both it and the poll questions directly from the site **Omg** linked to, as I mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/30 "2012-09-21T05:15:22Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > > [@AtomicDog](#): > > > > No. We are the government. We’re taking care of ourselves. > > Nicely put. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I should mention that all US citizens, and almost everyone on earth is dependent on the US government. [Government Is Us](http://www.winningwordsproject.com/government_is_us) [We Are All Dependent On Government](http://www.winningwordsproject.com/we_are_all_dependent_on_government) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/31 "2012-09-21T14:15:52Z")
Not paying income taxes because you don’t make enough money does NOT mean you are “Dependent on Government” as the Republicans are so fond of claiming. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134/32 "2012-09-21T16:16:15Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Not paying income taxes because you don’t make enough money does NOT mean you are “Dependent on Government” as the Republicans are so fond of claiming. I wonder how many of them would go on record as saying that farmers are dependent on government. A lot of them\* would probably try to defend farm subsidies as “tax breaks” rather than giveaways. If the tax breaks are so large as to make them pay almost nothing in taxes (and I don’t know if that’s the case), then it would seem that farmers are dependent on government and feel entitled. \*I’m open to the idea that some republicans from non-subsidized farming states might be opposed to the mostly Corn Belt subsidies, but I haven’t heard anything one way or another about GOP positions on the issue in several years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-many-americans-too-dependent-on-government/635134.md?page=1)