# Are meat-eaters really more cruel than vegetarians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417 "2016-08-29T17:32:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/1 "2016-08-29T17:32:18Z")
From _Emile, or On Education_ by Jean-Jacques Rousseau: > [@](#): > > It is certain that great meat-eaters are usually more cruel and ferocious than other men. This has been recognised at all times and in all places. The barbarous English are noted for their cruelty. (This was at a time when the English were noted for their appetite for beef. Viz [The Roast Beef of Old England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roast_Beef_of_Old_England)) Now as an Englishman and a meat-eater both I take exception to this. But is there any scientific validity to it? Have any studies been done? Must I really forego that juicy steak if I want to be a better and kinder human being? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/2 "2016-08-29T17:54:26Z")
Don’t take it personally. He was French. We’re bred to hate on you Brits and vice versa :). If only you hadn’t burnt the bitch… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/3 "2016-08-29T17:56:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > If only you hadn’t burnt the bitch… 😃 If they hadn’t, another reason would have been found. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/4 "2016-08-29T18:04:07Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > If they hadn’t, another reason would have been found. True dat. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/5 "2016-08-29T18:07:02Z")
I hate to Godwin so early in the thread, but Hitler was a vegetarian… Weeelll, there was talk of a liver dumpling soup he was fond of… ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/6 "2016-08-29T19:07:33Z")
I don’t know about people but consider this: A predator may attack you if he’s hungry, A herbivore will attack you any chance they get. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/7 "2016-08-29T19:13:24Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > I don’t know about people but consider this: A predator may attack you if he’s hungry, A herbivore will attack you any chance they get. I have always suspected that cows are just lulling me into a false sense of security before pouncing when my back is turned. ---
**Author:** ![cnicquel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cnicquel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cnicquel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/8 "2016-08-29T19:39:40Z")
I’m French, I can assure you we eat more meat than the English 🙂 There is nothing cruel in eating what you are supposed to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/9 "2016-08-29T21:10:00Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > . . . Hitler was a vegetarian… . . . And Popeye! Look at how Popeye conducts himself! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/10 "2016-08-29T23:57:34Z")
[We are on occasion less than polite.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=111345) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/11 "2016-08-30T00:20:04Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I hate to Godwin so early in the thread, but Hitler was a vegetarian… > > Weeelll, there was talk of a liver dumpling soup he was fond of… The author of [this article](http://www.vegsource.com/berry/hitler.html) clearly has a bone to pick, but offers some pretty convincing primary source evidence that Hitler’s vegetarianism was mostly a propaganda effort by Goebbels, and that Hitler ate a ton of sausage, ham, and liver dumpling. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/12 "2016-08-30T13:58:06Z")
Mother Teresa ate meat…_mic drop_. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/13 "2016-08-30T14:21:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The author of [this article](http://www.vegsource.com/berry/hitler.html) clearly has a bone to pick, but offers some pretty convincing primary source evidence that Hitler’s vegetarianism was mostly a propaganda effort by Goebbels, and that Hitler ate a ton of sausage, ham, and liver dumpling. I didn’t see any convincing primary source evidence. And there is no timeline. The article doesn’t really advance the issue in any direction. It does contain some bad history. The author claims that Hitler banned vegetarian groups. The Nazi regime banned those groups. If the author believes that Hitler knew or ordered the bannings he doesn’t provide any evidence. Hitler had far bigger fish to fry. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/14 "2016-08-30T16:56:50Z")
Don’t know about the rest of you, but I get pretty mean if I don’t get my animal proteins on a pretty regular basis. So in a way, perhaps the OP premise is true. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/15 "2016-08-30T17:39:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have always suspected that cows are just lulling me into a false sense of security before pouncing when my back is turned. You can stop worrying on that score, at least. Cows never pounce — they’re just not built for it. It’s more of a sudden lunge, accompanied by a goring action. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/16 "2016-08-30T18:42:13Z")
Yes, we probably are. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/17 "2016-08-30T21:38:41Z")
Isn’t this just the obverse of the old stereotype that vegetarians are soft, weak, tired and unwilling to take risks? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/18 "2016-08-30T21:48:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have always suspected that cows are just lulling me into a false sense of security before pouncing when my back is turned. Do you know how many thousands of years of breeding it took to domesticate animals and a bull will still kill you if you’re not careful. That’s why Buffalo in Yellowstone are the most dangerous animal. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/19 "2016-08-30T22:06:51Z")
Konrad Lorenz found that animals that kill to eat treated pack members and young far more kindly than animals that did not. His example was the highly structured society of wolf packs, which protect the young and train them and almost never have fatal conflicts, with pigeons and deer, which will kill other members of the group for little or no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Sputnikkk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Sputnikkk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sputnikkk)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-meat-eaters-really-more-cruel-than-vegetarians/764417/20 "2016-09-06T09:12:04Z")
I have dogs, cats, and rabbits. The rabbits are by far the most vicious and have to be kept separate or they will kill each other.