# Are men now victims in the sex war, continually demeaned by women without protest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192 "2002-11-17T19:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/1 "2002-11-17T19:22:09Z")
So said novelist [Doris Lessing](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4238674,00.html) in _The Guardian_. This is most assuredly _not_ a right-wing site. > [@](#): > > Doris Lessing yesterday claimed that men were the new silent victims in the sex war, “continually demeaned and insulted” by women without a whimper of protest. > > Lessing…said a “lazy and insidious” culture had taken hold within feminism that revelled in flailing men. > > Young boys were being weighed down with guilt about the crimes of their sex… while energy which could be used to get proper child care was being dissipated in the pointless humiliation of men… > > "Great things have been achieved through feminism. We now have pretty much equality at least on the pay and opportunities front, though almost nothing has been done on child care, the real liberation. > > "We have many wonderful, clever, powerful women everywhere, but what is happening to men? Why did this have to be at the cost of men? > > "I was in a class of nine- and 10-year-olds, girls and boys, and this young woman was telling these kids that the reason for wars was the innately violent nature of men. > > “You could see the little girls, fat with complacency and conceit while the little boys sat there crumpled, apologising for their existence, thinking this was going to be the pattern of their lives.” > > "It has become a kind of religion that you can’t criticise because then you become a traitor to the great cause, which I am not… > > The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest, kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests. ---
**Author:** ![David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_God_of_Frogs)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/2 "2002-11-17T19:53:36Z")
There is this commercial for garbage bags that was airing for a while, where these women were comparing the garbage bags to men, and they were saying things like “I like my men strong, sturdy, and tough”. At the end, one of the women said, “and when I’m through with him, goodbye”, and they showed a picture of her throwing the garbage bag away. I always wondered what would happen if they reversed the sexes… ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/3 "2002-11-17T20:24:49Z")
Gosh, it must be so hard to be a man these days. At least they have things to help keep their minds off the pain, like running the government, and big business, and the military, and the church, and the entertainment industry, and… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/4 "2002-11-17T20:55:44Z")
Did **Mrs. december** make you take out the trash again? ---
**Author:** ![Eulogy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7993a0/32.png) [@Eulogy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eulogy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/5 "2002-11-17T21:05:45Z")
It’s true…it’s gone beyond “women’s lib”. It seems the ‘new generation’ is more concerned with making males look bad, rather than females look good. But it only seems to happen with destiny’s child fans and middled aged women upset at all the things they never did. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/6 "2002-11-17T21:10:08Z")
Yes, even as we speak, my husband is being demeaned by being forced to sit on the couch and watch _Attack of the Clones_ with the kids while I wash the dishes from lunch… ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/7 "2002-11-17T21:38:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*“I was in a class of nine- and 10-year-olds, girls and boys, and this young woman was telling these kids that the reason for wars was the innately violent nature of men.” \*\* So tell the truth is wrong because…they’re 9 and 10 and not yet acustomed to being made face the grim realities of history? The violent nature of humans (mostly men, historically) _is_ a causal factor in most wars, if not all wars. People want [fill in the blank] so much that they’re willing to maim and murder to get it. If it wasn’t for greed for objects, power or simply being **right** (think the crusades) and the inherent willingness to shed blood to gain those things, we wouldn’t have wars. Since the majority of wars are and were started by men, it paints a picture of men’s natures that aren’t pretty, but accurate. How old should these kids be before we tell them the truth? 15, 16, old enough to already be violent to get what they want because they weren’t shown at a young age that it can have dire consequences, and too old to change their minds about what are the right ways to get what you want? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/8 "2002-11-17T21:53:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*The violent nature of humans (mostly men, historically) _is_ a causal factor in most wars, if not all wars. People want [fill in the blank] so much that they’re willing to maim and murder to get it. If it wasn’t for greed for objects, power or simply being **right** (think the crusades) and the inherent willingness to shed blood to gain those things, we wouldn’t have wars. Since the majority of wars are and were started by men, it paints a picture of men’s natures that aren’t pretty, but accurate. \*\* Hmmm, if that’s your evidence, **elfkin477** , then you probably believe that women are naturally defective at art, musical composition, mathematics, engineering, science, statesmanship, literature, architecture, etc., since most contributions in these fields were done by men. 😉 Let’s get real. Men started most wars, because until recently, very few women were heads of state. However, among the recent female heads of state, Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher were no less warlike than their male counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/9 "2002-11-17T22:03:48Z")
It is entirely due to women that men are kept from following their natural, God-given insincts, which is to run in packs, naked through the forest peeing on trees. And trimming our toenails when we goddam well feel like it, not a three o’clock in the bloody morning because some self-absorbed Princess… Me? Nothing. No, nothing, really. Yes, dear. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/10 "2002-11-17T22:06:51Z")
Well, I don’t know about you ladies, but I thank god every day I’m a woman in the 21st century, so I can grind those puny men under my bootheel, which I then make them lick… Oh…TMI, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/11 "2002-11-17T22:14:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lamia \* > \*\*Gosh, it must be so hard to be a man these days. At least they have things to help keep their minds off the pain, like running the government… \*\* This has got to be the lamest rant women can offer up. Newsflash: Women are a MAJORITY of voters in this country. If electing women per se is so important, you have no one but yourselves to blame. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/12 "2002-11-17T22:25:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Hmmm, if that’s your evidence, **elfkin477** , then you probably believe that women are naturally defective at art, musical composition, mathematics, engineering, science, statesmanship, literature, architecture, etc., since most contributions in these fields were done by men. 😉 \*\* Er, no. I think that there were less of these things done by women because until recently men were allowed to dictate which pursuits a woman could engage in, because women weren’t held as being much more capable than a child at deciding these things themselves. Most women who are allowed to think for themselves are as capable of taking up those pursuits as most men. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/13 "2002-11-17T22:30:20Z")
Umm…that story is from August of 2001. You’re just now getting around to it? [http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2001/08/18/stories/0318000g.htm](http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2001/08/18/stories/0318000g.htm) > [@](#): > > Feminists hit back at Lessing > By Hasan Suroor > > LONDON, AUG 17. As expected, angry feminists have come down on Ms. Doris Lessing like a tonne of bricks for her politically incorrect defence of men in which she said the great energy of early feminism had been lost in a lot of ``hot air’’ and an obsession with male-bashing… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/14 "2002-11-17T22:31:40Z")
Well, **Stoid** , thats not quite what the guys down at the pool hall say… You wouldn’t know anything about a tatoo? Something like “Property of Hells Angels, San Berdoo Chapter”. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/15 "2002-11-17T22:57:05Z")
A cite from The Hindu? Wow! ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/16 "2002-11-18T01:46:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*Er, no. I think that there were less of these things done by women because until recently men were allowed to dictate which pursuits a woman could engage in… \*\* Of course, **elfkin477**. My point was that the same is true for leading a nation into war. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/17 "2002-11-18T01:50:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Umm…that story is from August of 2001. > > You’re just now getting around to it? \*\* Yep. I already knew that my cite was dated August 14, 2001. But, isn’t the war between the sexes timeless? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Blivit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Blivit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blivit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/18 "2002-11-18T03:15:07Z")
A friends mother has this big crush on me and every time we all get together and have a few drinks she harasses me to no end. Grabing, groping and planting kisses on my cheek. Everyone thinks it is so damn funny, especially her daughter. I wonder how funny it would be if one of the older men in the group were getting drunk and constantly groping one of the younger ladies. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/19 "2002-11-18T03:18:40Z")
OK, so maybe I had a drink or two more than I should have. Besides, she was flirting with me pretty heavy. I thought she was really into me, you know? At least until the restraining order arrived… ---
**Author:** ![Ms.Fisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Ms.Fisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms.Fisk)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192/20 "2002-11-18T04:03:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\* > Newsflash: Women are a MAJORITY of voters in this country. If electing women per se is so important, you have no one but yourselves to blame. \*\* I think we should all be convinced already that it really doesn’t matter who votes anyway. Not only does the electoral college system, and our recent experience with it, debunk the myth of “one [person], one vote,” but corporate money controls representatives and policy much more than any group of voters (as such) do. Besides, elected representatives are just pawns of Corporate America, which is, surprise, dominated by men. There are a number of factors that contribute to this pattern, including the fact that many women choose to bear and rear children rather than remain in the workforce. However, women do not receive the respect they deserve, nor are their needs met by employers or government (yet men’s needs are met by both these powers, and by women). Male-bashing is a separate issue from feminist pursuits, IMO. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-now-victims-in-the-sex-war-continually-demeaned-by-women-without-protest/137192.md?page=2)