# Are men starting to be more frequently the 'moochers' in a relationship? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 28, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073 "2015-01-28T02:50:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/21 "2015-01-28T22:00:59Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > It baffles me too but I have several guesses why: > > -The woman wants to ‘fix’ the guy; she sees him as misunderstood and feels special if she can get the guy to change in a way he won’t for anyone else. > > -She is convinced a lack of male interest is due to men’s inability to respect the fact that she is a professional, independent, yadda yadda. In reality, the lack of interest is due to personality flaws. Maybe she’s a control freak, condescending harpy she-beast. Most guys won’t bother, but for a 40yo living in his parent’s basement the pros outweigh the cons. > > -Her family life was dysfunctional, and had a distant slacker for a father. She may have been raised to believe she would have to put a disproportional amount of effort to get positive attention from men, and gravitate toward the lazy ones. While any of these could be the right answer, and I do not even pretend to know what she was thinking, my original guess was that she saw it as “he gets to sit around all day smoking pot and not have any responsibilities and still has food and shelter? let me get a piece of that”. I suspect it may be a negative side effect of the new culture in this country of never letting our kids fail at anything, and those kids grow up and still expect a safety net. Forever. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/22 "2015-01-28T23:21:35Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > I’m curious the number of stay at home dads that take advantage of it. I’ve known a few couples where this was definitely the case. Ironically, all of them were gamers and seemed to use their status to play games all day. As for their kids, they would either dump them off on other family members or just leave them semi unsupervised. Wife would come home from work to a messy house, dirty kid, and a husband feigning ignorance on what was supposed to be done. > > Now I’ll concede that some stay at home moms pull the lazy con as well. But I would argue that women unfairly pull the lion’s share of the work in either situation. Several working moms I know wished their husbands would at least get a part time job so they could use the money for daycare/housekeeping since it would be a more cost effective use of the husband’s time rather than playing Xbox all day. > > There’s gradually less pressure on guys to arbitrarily be providers and it feels like some slackers are blatantly talking advantage of it. > > Another trend I’ve been annoyed by is this tendency for some guys to flat out refuse to do tasks that have no value to them, leaving it all to their partner. These aren’t petty stereotypical things like decorating the house a certain way, they are day to day things like cleaning up after ones self, buying groceries, setting a monthly budget, etc. I see a lot of people in relationships where the guy doesn’t care about that stuff, the woman does, and a resentment builds up as a result. > > Are these women dumb for getting with guys that would be lazy moochers? Maybe. But sometimes qualities like this can sneak up over time . Just like realizing just how crazy or unfaithful a partner can be, finding out one is a moocher can also take some time. With changing gender roles, I wonder if it gives some guys more excuses, not less. And in most cases, the women know this before they have kids with him and do so anyway, and then want everyone to feel sorry for them when the relationship tanks. :rolleyes: These are also often the cases where the man claims he didn’t see it coming. I believe that interest in gaming, even a nominal interest, should be an absolute deal breaker if someone wants children. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/23 "2015-01-28T23:23:33Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > While any of these could be the right answer, and I do not even pretend to know what she was thinking, my original guess was that she saw it as “he gets to sit around all day smoking pot and not have any responsibilities and still has food and shelter? let me get a piece of that”. > > I suspect it may be a negative side effect of the new culture in this country of never letting our kids fail at anything, and those kids grow up and still expect a safety net. Forever. No, this was going on when I was growing up in the 1970s. As an adolescent, I once asked my mother, “Is there some rule that women are supposed to have their kids with the most worthless man they can find?” You wonder sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/24 "2015-01-29T02:02:09Z")
If the good folks on Judge Judy are any indication, freeloaders come in all shapes and sizes. Anecdotally, I know tons of people who are in relationships with a free-loader, and it’s pretty balanced out by men and women. Lazy is lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/25 "2015-01-29T02:27:12Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > Another trend I’ve been annoyed by is this tendency for some guys to flat out refuse to do tasks that have no value to them, leaving it all to their partner. These aren’t petty stereotypical things like decorating the house a certain way, they are day to day things like cleaning up after ones self, buying groceries, setting a monthly budget, etc. I see a lot of people in relationships where the guy doesn’t care about that stuff, the woman does, and a resentment builds up as a result. People just have differing standards of necessity and cleanliness, and tend to fall into those. One of the more important aspects of a relationship that goes to living together is seeing if you have different standards of cleanliness (for instance). My ex and I didn’t, she treated the ground as a trash can, and when she stayed with me for several months (we were both in school, but she only had online classes so she was “stay at home”) the apartment got gradually worse because I couldn’t keep up with two people making a mess, especially when one of our messes was in my apartment 24/7. It made me gradually more depressed. However, I have two friends who are engaged and their house is a wreck. But here’s the key: they both have low cleanliness standards. They both can live like that and don’t care. It’s fine. Likewise, I probably wouldn’t get along with a “dishes go straight in the dishwasher, trash is thrown away immediately” spouse. I have clutter, and I generally clean on Friday or Saturday, but things sit until then. Then I have a big cleaning spree every 3 months or so when I meticulously vacuum and dust everything, as opposed to my mom who spends all day every Saturday dusting and vacuuming. I get around to it eventually, but things get steadily worse until I hit my “okay, time to clean” point. My apartment is always manageable, and it’s always just clean enough that if guests are coming over it’ll be perfectly fine in an hour or two, but I don’t value immaculate housekeeping. And I don’t think I’d get along with a neat freak that did. Now, are women raised to generally have higher standards of cleanliness? Probably, and we should be aware of the problems that can cause. But I don’t think you can really cast this in a “slobby, lazy men are mooching” light as much. It’s much more a disconnect of how much they value various things. It’s perfectly okay to not value a neat, clean house or having a strict budget or whatever else. You just have to make sure your partner is on the same page, or at least enjoys doing said chore enough that they don’t mind you not doing it; it’s not just a continuum of some people being more responsible than others. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/26 "2015-01-29T02:52:19Z")
I know a bunch of moocher guys, but I think I know more that are Super-Guys: not only do the traditional “guy stuff” like winning the bread and fix cars and whatnot, but also traditional “girl stuff” like cook and look after the kids. I’m not sure what the societal trend is overall. And on seeing couples like chunky woman and average dude, it’s a fun game to guess about couples you see, and of course I sometimes do it too, but you can (often) be way off. For example, plenty of times I’ve met couples where my first thought was “Geez, how did he get her?”, but then I find that actually he’s a very charismatic guy and it’s actually the girl who’s trying real hard to hang on to him. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/27 "2015-01-29T03:50:53Z")
Tuxie, you seem to be judging other people so hard, you’re going to wear yourself out! You’ve gotta Pace yourself. Save something for that mirror. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/28 "2015-01-29T16:57:00Z")
My dad was a moocher guy for most of his life. He would have been perfectly content to be a stay at home dad and look after me. This drove mom crazy. There have always been moocher men. People just didn’t talk about it because they were ashamed. Oh, and I remember paying once for dinner and the waitress looked pointedly at my SO and said, “I can’t believe you’re letting her pay!” WTF? Who pays is just a gesture in our household, anyway. The account is joint, so it comes from the same place. “Treating” the other person literally means “I will be the one to pull out the credit card, sign for it, and thus pay my own credit card out of our joint account.” Also, people may have different standards of cleanliness, but there needs to be a botom level. At the very least, food should be picked up, dishes done, trash taken out, and there should be some food in the house. That is bare minimum and avoids mice/cockroaches. ---
**Author:** ![Mooch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mooch)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/29 "2015-01-29T17:26:01Z")
I happen to leave work much earlier than my wife and because of this I take on many more responsibilities at home with the kids, walking the dog, keeping the house clean, cooking all the meals, home repairs, yard work, shoveling, etc. I enjoy the extra time I get with my kids, I have a higher standard of cleanliness than she does and cooking is one of my hobbies - I make 5 different from scratch dinners a week. I do this not because she makes more than me and I feel like I need to earn my keep but because we have a partnership and shit needs to get done. Since I have the time, inclination and aptitude why wouldn’t I do all that stuff? We split expenses fairly evenly and when we go out she often picks up the tab. If she made even more money I would happily be a stay-at-home dad. ---
**Author:** ![Tuxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tuxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuxie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/30 "2015-01-29T17:46:59Z")
Moocher, no mooching! Haha, I kid, of course. You sound like a great husband. Some people here have a difficult time understanding the word “moocher”. It is not merely the partner in an unfavorable financial position. It’s the partner entitled to do little or nothing. Someone unemployed that feels guilty for causing the other person financial strain is not a moocher, for example. Nor is it the person who did not pay at a restaurant, unless they NEVER pay and take advantage of it. Regarding cleanliness or ambition: When you are in a relationship, the things your partner values highly should also matter to you. A slob doesn’t have to force themselves to be a clean freak to appease their clean freak partner, but putting in a greater amount of effort than they’d previously would show consideration. I just find that it seems more like the women in these relationships are taking things like that more seriously. It could be cultural- women are more often raised to make sacrifices for the benefit of others and the threshold of acting ‘selfish’ seems much lower for women than it does for men. I’m curious on how changes in gender roles are affecting moochers. Anaamika and others claim these guys have always been around, which I don’t dispute. But I’m genuinely curious if changing gender roles make it easier for them to be moochers. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/31 "2015-01-29T17:55:07Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I believe that interest in gaming, even a nominal interest, should be an absolute deal breaker if someone wants children. Millions of people enjoy playing games as a hobby, and only a very small fraction of them do so at the expense of their children. Have a little perspective. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Also, people may have different standards of cleanliness, but there needs to be a botom level. At the very least, food should be picked up, dishes done, trash taken out, and there should be some food in the house. I think the important thing is that people talk about what’s important to them and reach an agreement. “You have higher standards of cleanliness than I do, so you should do the cleaning” is the sort of thing I said to my mom when I was 14 years old. Adults can and should do better. My wife likes things cleaner than I do, and part of the compromise of our marriage is that I do more regular cleaning in the house than I otherwise would. I like to watch movies more than she does, and part of the compromise of of our marriage is that I turned the spare bedroom into a home theater. We can both give a little to make each other happy and comfortable in our home. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/32 "2015-01-29T17:55:53Z")
It happens to women to allow it to happen. Me, if I’m going to have something useless in the house, it’ll be my cats. WRT “where do I sign up?” – I once told my then-fiance’ that when we got married, I should be a housewife, and network with other doctors’ wives, and throw parties to help move him ahead in his career\*. And my beloved looked at me and said, “A housewife? But…I’ve seen your house.” 😮 \*I really just wanted to sleep late and watch daytime episodes of _Law & Order_ in my pajamas, not throw parties. He probably knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/33 "2015-01-29T17:59:47Z")
It’s not a new thing. Then, I knew a bunch of musicians in my youth… ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/34 "2015-01-29T18:03:33Z")
I think some of what you are seeing is that there are now more examples of this sort of thing in middle and upper middle classes. The stereotype of the hard-working poor woman with the no-good man (often with racial/ethnic overtones) is centuries old. What has changed is that now the hard-working woman may well earn enough that household is now middle class. ---
**Author:** ![Tuxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tuxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuxie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/35 "2015-01-29T18:31:32Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think some of what you are seeing is that there are now more examples of this sort of thing in middle and upper middle classes. The stereotype of the hard-working poor woman with the no-good man (often with racial/ethnic overtones) is centuries old. What has changed is that now the hard-working woman may well earn enough that household is now middle class. You bring up a very good point. I know it has been a persistent stereotype of african-american men. Perhaps it is now no longer limited to minority stereotype? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/36 "2015-01-29T18:35:22Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > You bring up a very good point. I know it has been a persistent stereotype of african-american men. Perhaps it is now no longer limited to minority stereotype? It was also a stereotype of lots of other poor populations–think Irish washerwoman with a drunk Paddy, Tough Country Mama with a no-good cowboy man, even Hooker with a heart of gold and Useless Pimp. It’s more like it was a rarity among the fairly small group of the professional classes, because access to that class was limited to households with white men–the only ones that could be professionals. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/37 "2015-01-29T18:41:19Z")
“Unemployed” doesn’t mean “mooch”. Unless the person in questions is making no attempts to find another job and spends their day golfing or playing videogames and not contributing to the household. I don’t know if one is more prevalent than the other, but men and women seem to mooch differently. Traditionally, the female mooch or “gold digger” is someone who spends their husbands money all day while he is working. The male mooch more often takes the form of a permanently adolescent apathetic slacker who would rather watch football, golf or play videogames with his buddies all day than actively participate in the household. In popular media, he is often portrayed as an immature but charming underachieving doofus who “can’t get their shit together”. Mathew McConaughey in Failure to Launch, Simon Pegg in Shaun of the Dead and more so in The World’s End and John Cussack in High Fidelity are examples of this. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I believe that interest in gaming, even a nominal interest, should be an absolute deal breaker if someone wants children. Typically an interest in the one usually precludes the other. 😃 Seriously, though. The issue is not an interest in gaming. The issue is having the maturity to know that when you have a kid, you won’t have time to sit there for hours on end playing World of Warcraft or whatever. I like videogames, but with a newborn, I really can only squeeze in a couple hours hear and there when the baby is asleep or nursing with Mommy or otherwise occupied (hey, sometimes HE just wants Baby time to play with his stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/38 "2015-01-29T19:07:27Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I believe that interest in gaming, even a nominal interest, should be an absolute deal breaker if someone wants children. That’s just sad. No room for, perhaps, playing games with the kiddies, and giving them an interest in gaming, too? And does this apply to any other hobby? Hell, I have an interest in gaming that I have had since I was ten or younger, don’t have kids, and still don’t have all of my time to invest in games. I still only pay 2-3 hours a night, and that’s when I am really into a game. And when I have more important things to do, I don’t play gamnes. As others have said, you have to be mature enough to know that when you have a kid, your interests are going to come second. Really you need someone who is mature enough to know that hobbies are not lifestyles. That doesn’t mean you should have no interests. Hell, my SO’s sister in law has no interests other than watching TV. She doesn’t play games or sports or read or do anything. I don’t think that’s a great way to raise the kids, either! ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/39 "2015-01-29T19:37:49Z")
I can’t get on board with this theory. I’m pretty sure freeloading isn’t gender specific. In my own life I have… -One cousin (male) and one brother-in-law who are grown ass (over-mothered) adults living with their parents. -Coincidentally, an uncle and father-in-law (dads of the above) who(m?) have both been unemployed for YEARS and are living off the crap jobs the mothers are getting. Why my aunt/mother-in-law put up with this shit I have no idea. -One aunt who I don’t think has ever done a goddamned thing ever. -One cousin (female) who can’t be bothered to take care of her own children (her mother does that) and, from what I can gather, spends her days on Facebook playing Farmville and railing against GMOs. -One cousin (female) whose life’s work is to find new and interesting ways to be cared for by others. …so for me it’s a pretty even split. I’ll admit that my inner sexist is more appalled when a man does it. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073/40 "2015-01-29T19:45:59Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > Women get a lot of flak for being painted as gold diggers, lazy stay at home moms, and other kinds of layabouts. I think part of this comes from a common cultural expectation that the man in a relationship is the ‘provider’. We’ve moved away from that being the absolute, but there is definitely still cultural baggage from it. However, things are changing. > > More women are going to school and becoming professionals. More men are becoming stay-at-home dads. The balance of power is shifting, at least on paper. And I can’t help but wonder if some men are taking greater advantage of it, to the detriment of their partner. I hear more and more situations with a working woman living with a boyfriend/husband who is just a lazy mooch. Now I’m sure people are going to come into this thread and say “women do it just as much!” but I’m starting to wonder if that is really true. > > Maybe guys aren’t lazier, they just have more excuses to be so it becomes harder to identify the moochers. I know a few stay-at-home dads who are very involved fathers and hardworking in spite of being home all day. And I also know a few others that blatantly take advantage of it; fathers who greet their wives to a child with feces encumbered, hungry baby and a messy living room. There is so much more pressure on a woman to be a ‘good’ parent vs a man, that when the roles are reversed (dad stays home and takes care of the kids) the bar is way way lower regarding expectations. > > Even when kids aren’t involved, I see women in relationships with guys who are sporadically/unemployed. Maybe in the past it was less likely for the woman to be in a career position where she could support a deadbeat partner like this, but nowadays I feel like some men are exploiting it, and mooching off their partners in ways they may not have been able to get away with in previous decades. Thoughts? “Starting to be?” Since, like, [1941 at least](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Don%27t_You_Do_Right%3F)? See also “woman’s blues”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-starting-to-be-more-frequently-the-moochers-in-a-relationship/711073.md?page=3)