# are men superior to women ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578 "2002-09-01T18:00:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Havel.2002](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Havel.2002](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Havel.2002)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/21 "2002-09-01T20:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chorus \* > \*\*As for the Nobel prize, I sort of agree. Women do not do as well in science as men. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that you can argue that. What you can argue, however, is **why?** This has always confused me. I’ve known lots of smart women in my time, there doesn’t seem to be any reason for them not to excel in science. Is it hard to get into science as a woman? Or is it just not interesting to them? (the same way knitting doesn’t interest men) > > –Chorus \*\* about 10-11 women have gotten the nobel prize and about 500 men. Only one women have gotten the prize in the 90’s. _(I do not count litterature and peace here because they haven’t something to do with science)_ ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/22 "2002-09-01T20:06:34Z")
> [@](#): > > why? I have some opinions, not anything I can back up with a cite. I think science has been traditionally anti-female. Not only in terms of getting into the classroom (my college alma mater–an engineering school–first opened its doors to women in the sixties right along with blacks), but in many aspects of the field. Let me preface this by saying that I’m not a feminist science philosopher…just a woman scientist with a bunch of HOs. 1. I don’t like essentialistic thinking, but I think women tend to rely on more intuitional, emotional ways of thinking than men do. The whole idea that emotions should be left at the door when you enter a laboratory is a concept developed by men, and I think it works against most women’s “natures”. The perception that science is nonemotional (aka "objective) may not appeal to many women. 2. Again, I don’t like essentialistic thinking, but I think men tend to be more competitive than women. This may explain why they are less likely to be intimidated by sciences classes in college. When I was in college, all of my intro classes were “weed-outs”–classes designed to winnow the smart from the dumb. This is intimidating for everyone, but I think women are particularly sensitive since science is still perceived as “male” and women aren’t as competitive and ego-stroking as males (again, IMHO). 3. Many women want to have kids. Being a good scientist and bearing and raising children is not an easy task, especially since this society still places a higher standard on women when it comes to parenthood. Men can get away with spending all day and night in the laboratory; a woman with two babies at home can’t. 4)Women are more likely to pursue higher degrees of education (Ph.D, MD, etc.) so that they can directly help others. This goes back to the traditional (and IMHO, realistic) view that women tend to be more nurturing, more caring than males. The positive relationship between scientists and society is there, to be sure, but it is more indirect than the relationship between say a pediatrician and society, or a psychologist and society. Nonetheless, women have always been present in science. Often times, however, their contributions have been ignored or been downplayed. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/23 "2002-09-01T20:12:27Z")
Are men superior to women? Havel.2002 seems bent on proving they are not, or at least _some_ aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/24 "2002-09-01T20:13:54Z")
Well, Havel, you’ve put forth a theory that some would call wildly controversial, and have not backed it up at all. Usually someone wiser and better at wordsmithing does this, but, as a holdover: You put forth a theory that I will risk moderator wrath by calling extremely stupid. Your defence > [@](#): > > You ask for a lot of specifik examples, but refuses to see the whole picture. doesn’t. The answer to your question: No. Posting ‘impressions’ and ‘big pictures’ doesn’t cut it. Now, put up, or, and I hope you choose this one, shut up. If this is too strong for GD, please whack this post, mods. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/25 "2002-09-01T20:16:27Z")
> [@](#): > > This goes back to the traditional (and IMHO, realistic) view that women tend to be more nurturing, more caring than males. How could one determine if women are more caring or instead…they are more comfortable showing the caring and nurturing aspect. I think we are beginning to get away from a rigid sense of gender roles. I see women / girls being more comfortable with competition. I see men / boys being slightly more willing to display caring and emotional honesty. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/26 "2002-09-01T20:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > sorry to say this, but most of you are very good at avoiding my main-point. You don’t have a “main-point”. The OP is not only poorly worded, but you haven’t held up your end in providing citations and intelligent responses to the questions asked of you. So if we’re avoiding something, it’s your fault. > [@](#): > > You simply aren’t very eager to know my opinion What was your first clue? > [@](#): > > You ask for a lot of specifik examples, but refuses to see the whole picture. If you want this to be a debate, you should have everything set-out in the OP so that we don’t have to ask for anything. And you’re acting like there _is_ a whole picture. It’s clear what your premise is. It’s like we’re talking rocket science here, dude. > [@](#): > > I have the impression that women have a tendency to be destructive when they discover that men is almost totally superior when it comes to produce new knowledge and inventions. Is there a lot of woman-on-male violence over there in Europe? Because I’m just not seeing this mass destruction you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > They often blame the male-society but can’t face the fact that it’s often themselves that are not smart enough There should be a quote from a woman somewhere on the internet that would support this statement, if what you say is true. How about this? Why don’t you sober up before you post again. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/27 "2002-09-01T20:19:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Havel.2002 \* > \*\* > I have the impression that women have a tendency to be destructive when they discover that men is almost totally superior when it comes to produce new knowledge and inventions. They often blame the male-society but can’t face the fact that it’s often themselves that are not smart enough \*\* Wow, such sweeping generalizations!! I am impressed. Just because I may not be as smart in math and science as my husband does not mean I am “inferior” to him. Remember, it was a man that invented the A-bomb and the H-bomb, and I believe the leader of Iraq is a man…as was the leader of 1939ish Germany…if you want to talk about destruction. Not all women are feminist and liberal. I for instance, am a Libertarian, if you care. I don’t know where your disgust of women comes from…I would say you yourself may feel inferior. I don’t. If a man comes up with a cure for cancer, wonderful. I don’t care if he has a penis…just that he cured a terrible disease. We are all humans, remember, and the human race can’t exist without both male and female. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/28 "2002-09-01T20:27:35Z")
> [@](#): > > sorry to say this, but most of you are very good at avoiding my main-point. Sorry to say this, but I think most of us are having a hard time figuring out what your main point _is_, exactly, and in four replies to your own OP you have not made your views any clearer. If, for example, your main point is that women (all women everywhere, apparently) should be denied social equality based on a low percentage of Nobel awards for science, then your position is absurd and worthy of nothing but derision. > [@](#): > > I have the impression that women have a tendency to be destructive when they discover that men is almost totally superior when it comes to produce new knowledge and inventions. They often blame the male-society but can’t face the fact that it’s often themselves that are not smart enough I’ve read this four times, and I haven’t a clue what you are trying to say here. What is the nature of the destruction that women carry out? Who specifically blames “male-society”, and for what? Could you maybe try posting something with an actual fact in it, to facilitate the debate? > [@](#): > > You simply aren’t very eager to know my opinion We’ve heard your opinion, and have signaled so by bothering to reply to your utter hash of an OP. Please don’t blame us for your inability to express yourself coherently. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/29 "2002-09-01T20:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by grienspace \* > I in turn will dispute that claim by offering Queen Victoria as a woman who took an empire and built it to double in size. Her reign was actually relatively peaceful compared to previous history._\* Yeah, but her reign also resulted in the Victorian Era, which was characterized by an unbelievable level of public prudishness and whose echoes **still** plague us here in the U.S. (which wasn’t even **part** of the British Empire at the time!) In other words, it’s all Queen Victoria’s fault that I’m not getting laid. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/30 "2002-09-01T20:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\*What have women destroyed? \*\* My self-esteem. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/31 "2002-09-01T20:49:31Z")
I am saddened to hear this. I hope you will soon realize that you are responsible for what you think about you. I think it is unwise to allow someone to manipulate your opinions about yourself. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/32 "2002-09-01T21:05:35Z")
I can’t believe you think that. Men also destroy things when they get power… there’s Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/33 "2002-09-01T21:18:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Havel.2002 \* > **You simply aren’t very eager to know my opinion** GD is for facts, not opinions. You haven’t posted any facts. > [@](#): > > **You ask for a lot of specifik examples, but refuses to see the whole picture.** You haven’t shown us a picture. What you’ve posted so far is the equivalent of a smudge that you’re claiming is a stick figure. You’re making the claim that women are inferior to men. To back that up, you need to come up with specific ways that women are inferior to men, and you need evidence to support that your claims are true. Then, and only then, will you have a case. Right now, you’ve got nothing but sound and fury, signifying nothing. Oh, and you’d better be prepared to discuss the biological basis of any differences that you do manage to show–otherwise, we can assume that they’re purely cultural and therefore not inherent. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/34 "2002-09-01T21:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Havel.2002 \* > **You simply aren’t very eager to know my opinion** GD is for facts, not opinions. You haven’t posted any facts. > [@](#): > > **You ask for a lot of specifik examples, but refuses to see the whole picture.** You haven’t shown us a picture. What you’ve posted so far is the equivalent of a smudge that you’re claiming is a stick figure. You’re making the claim that women are inferior to men. To back that up, you need to come up with specific ways that women are inferior to men, and you need evidence to support that your claims are true. Then, and only then, will you have a case. Right now, you’ve got nothing but sound and fury, signifying nothing. Oh, and you’d better be prepared to discuss the biological basis of any differences that you do manage to show–otherwise, we can assume that they’re purely cultural and therefore not inherent. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/35 "2002-09-01T21:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chorus \* > **As for the Nobel prize, I sort of agree. Women do not do as well in science as men. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that you can argue that. What you can argue, however, is why? This has always confused me. I’ve known lots of smart women in my time, there doesn’t seem to be any reason for them not to excel in science. Is it hard to get into science as a woman? Or is it just not interesting to them? (the same way knitting doesn’t interest men)** I’ve heard that, in the US, women are trained to think in people-centered ways, and men are trained to think in problem-centered ways. That could definitely explain the discrepancy, and why women tend to prefer the “softer” sciences (no cite, just my own experience). ---
**Author:** ![Havel.2002](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Havel.2002](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Havel.2002)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/36 "2002-09-01T23:10:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\* > > GD is for facts, not opinions. You haven’t posted any facts. \*\* wrong I’ve said that almost all the nobel-prize winneres are men, only 11 women have won it - about 500 men Almost everything in our society is made by men, almost every invention and innovation new knowledge is mostly produced by men this is what I call facts ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/37 "2002-09-01T23:17:25Z")
Let’s see, England always seemed to prosper under Queens. Elizabeth I Victoria Elizabeth II What about Catherine the Great, Marie Curie, Isabella of Spain (who was Co-Ruler of Spain along with her husband, not merely Queen Consort, as she was Heir to Castile, her husband of Aragon-or was it the other way around?), Florence Nightingale, Clara Barton, etc? > [@](#): > > Almost everything in our society is made by men, almost every invention and innovation > > new knowledge is mostly produced by men Oh really? CITE!!! ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/38 "2002-09-01T23:23:39Z")
Hey, you US style Americans! You can forget about supposed European cultural superiority. I understand the French love Jerry Lewis and now along comes **Havel.2002**. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/39 "2002-09-01T23:36:28Z")
Until very recently, (and even still, some places on this planet haven’t even caught up), women weren’t _allowed_ to pursue the same course of actions as the men who did all this inventing and prize winning. Education. It wasn’t until even the late 20th century that it was commonplace to see women attending college. It’s not that woman aren’t as smart as men, it’s that they haven’t been allowed to display it. Thankfully, that is starting to change now, despite opinions such as the OP. And by the by, I’m not a grammar wonk by any stretch, but if the OP is male, and English is his first language – I think we can pretty much cast all the aspersions we’d like and declare the argument moot. I’m just saying, is all … ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578/40 "2002-09-01T23:48:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*as she was Heir to Castile, her husband of Aragon-or was it the other way around?), > \*\* Despite being a woman (I believe), you got it right… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-men-superior-to-women/126578.md?page=3)