# Are Merit Systems in Academia and Work a Method of Enforcing White Dominance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468 "2018-03-13T03:22:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/61 "2018-03-14T14:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > According to the 2014 U.S. Census Bureau ACS study (see charts below) 27% of all African American men, women and children live below the poverty level compared to just 11% of all Americans. An even higher percentage (38%) of Black children live in poverty compared to 22% of all children in America. The poverty rate for working-age Black women (26%) which consists of women ages 18 to 64 is higher than that of working-age Black men (21%). > > Poverty rates for Black families vary based on the family type. While 23% of all Black families live below the poverty level only 8% of Black married couple families live in poverty which is considerably lower than the 37% of Black families headed by single women who live below the poverty line. The highest poverty rates (46%) are for Black families with children which are headed by single Black women. This is significant considering more than half (55%) of all Black families with children are headed by single women. [Cite](http://blackdemographics.com/households/poverty/). If having a lower-than-average poverty rate is white privilege, then black married couples have white privilege. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/62 "2018-03-14T14:46:21Z")
I assume that’s meant to dispute someone’s post, **Shodan** , but I’m not sure which post that is. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/63 "2018-03-14T15:29:53Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > You are strawmanning Shodan (except for his irrelevant side tangent about Hillary’s emails). He never said that black people need to stop having so much melanin in their skin. He’s pointing to certain behaviors which are more common per capita amongst blacks than whites. Crime, dropping out of school, out of wedlock births. Was he? I mean, you’ll note that I never said that black people need to stop having so much melanin in their skin either but regardless: are those things “black” things, and is avoiding doing them “acting white”? Because that would certainly be an _interesting_ claim. > [@Shodan](#): > > I’m glad you enjoyed it, although I would have preferred a more substantive response. In particular one that didn’t include “alls” that weren’t in my post. Should I have said “most”? You painted with a pretty broad brush there so the implication was that your views at the very least applied to the majority. I didn’t see any references to “some” blacks or specific subsets - did you forget to put those in? And I’m also curious about these white progressives and blacks who are saying “black people can’t be expected to compete on merit with whites and Asians.” I mean, I suppose one could note that that phrase could interpreted to mean “the existence of significant societal barriers affecting black people prevent merit and hard work from being sufficient conditions for success” (which is the argument that Dr. Putnam is making) or to mean “black people aren’t capable of competing in a system based on merit and hard work because they’re not good enough” (which is the argument racist assholes use), and that the ambiguity in interpretation could be used by disingenuous individuals to imply a conflation between white progressives and racists, but I’m sure that’s not something you would do. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you meant, to avoid the rest of us jumping to conclusions you didn’t intend. ETA: BTW, I meant to thank you for your helpful suggestions. The next time **SamuelA** complains about white people being shot, I can tell him that they should have obeyed the law in the first place. And that when white people are discriminated against, those white people should just change the way they act. Problem solved! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/64 "2018-03-14T15:30:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In terms of individual action for those without this privilege to try and be successful, perhaps (or at least that might be one path to aid success). But many of us want to dismantle white privilege. That work will come largely from white people. Since most of the problems in the black community do not come from white privilege, you will be mostly wasting your time. > [@](#): > > The guy Sean Groubert shot didn’t break the law or resist arrest. And unless you believe that a video just happened to catch the only instance of this ever to occur, he wasn’t the only one. Eric Garner and Michael Brown and Jamar Clark and most of the others BLM fulminates over did break the law and resist arrest. > [@](#): > > I have the privilege of being less likely to be shot even if I break the law or resist arrest, due to biases in society and law enforcement. OK, let’s see your data. Not anecdotes, data - what percentage of white people who resist arrest get shot vs. black people who get shot resisting arrest under the same or similar circumstances? > [@](#): > > I assume you mean turnout was lower, but I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Black turnout was lower in '16 than in '12 and '08… so what? Lots of demographics had lower turnout. If blacks don’t vote, that isn’t white privilege. > [@](#): > > I haven’t thought it through because I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here or why I would ever say this. Read the OP. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I assume that’s meant to dispute someone’s post, Shodan, but I’m not sure which post that is. It’s backing up my position. White female headed households have a poverty rate of 30% ([cite](https://nwlc.org/resources/national-snapshot-poverty-among-women-families-2015/)). Black married households have a poverty rate lower than the national average. Maybe there’s a privilege there, but it doesn’t seem to be white. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/65 "2018-03-14T15:42:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …are those things “black” things, and is avoiding doing them “acting white”? Because that would certainly be an _interesting_ claim. I am not sure why you find it so interesting - crime, out-of-wedlock births, and dropping out of school are indeed “black” things, in the sense that they are disproportionately encountered among blacks in the US as compared to other groups, like whites and Asians. This is a truism. And that disproportionate occurrence explains most of the negative outcomes also disproportionately encountered among blacks. See my previous cite. Single female headed households are disproportionately in poverty. A large majority of black children are born to unwed mothers. Do the math. > [@](#): > > ETA: BTW, I meant to thank you for your helpful suggestions. The next time **SamuelA** complains about white people being shot, I can tell him that they should have obeyed the law in the first place. You’re welcome. Yes, white people should obey the law and not resist arrest, and then they (mostly) won’t get shot. So should everyone else, and then they will (mostly) not get shot. ETA - > [@](#): > > And that when white people are discriminated against, those white people should just change the way they act. Problem solved! First, you need to establish that those white people are really being discriminated against, and it is not just a smokescreen or an excuse. Then, knock yourself out. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/66 "2018-03-14T17:07:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I refer you again to the **TEN-POINT LIST OF SUGGESTED ACTIONS** in the blog article the OP refers to, none of which are “Hey, let’s take stuff from white people and give it to black people!”. Honestly, most of that lists looks like “cocktail party talk” bullshit so liberals can feel like they are “doing something” about racism and privilege. I don’t see how those points change anything. Because at the end of the day, the kid who grows up in a good home in a safe neighborhood where education is valued is going to have advantages over someone who grows up in a high-crime, economically depressed neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/67 "2018-03-14T17:11:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > […] most of the problems in the black community do not come from white privilege […] That’s blatantly ignoring historical fact. Yes, most of the problems endemic among American blacks—lower asset ownership, higher incarceration rates, less representation in leadership positions, lower education rates, and so on—are indeed rooted in centuries of white privilege and anti-black oppression and discrimination. If you apply the narrowest possible focus to your statement—that is, if all you’re really saying is that no white person nowadays is immediately physically coercing any black person to commit a crime or consume illegal drugs or have unprotected sex, etc.—then that is mostly true. (Although even that’s not entirely true, given the extent to which, for example, white supervisors sexually exploit nonwhite employees in menial jobs.) But any broader interpretation attempting to claim that white privilege bears no responsibility overall for most of the problems of black communities is a barefaced denial of historical reality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/68 "2018-03-14T17:23:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Since most of the problems in the black community do not come from white privilege, you will be mostly wasting your time. White privilege is enormously unjust no matter how much of the problems in various communities it’s responsible for (and I already know we disagree on the extent of its influence). > [@](#): > > Eric Garner and Michael Brown and Jamar Clark and most of the others BLM fulminates over did break the law and resist arrest. Whether true or not, it doesn’t conflict with my point. > [@](#): > > OK, let’s see your data. Not anecdotes, data - what percentage of white people who resist arrest get shot vs. black people who get shot resisting arrest under the same or similar circumstances? We’ve gone back and forth on this many times. Lots of data has been presented (about police conduct as a whole, not just for shootings) that I find compelling and you do not – the Ferguson report, various disparities in arrest rates and drug use, shooting disparities, etc. The one I find most compelling I’ve presented many times (if you need it again I’m sure I can dig it up, but I think I’ve memorized the numbers): 50% of black Americans report that they, personally, have been mistreated by law enforcement, while only 3% of white Americans do. Unless you think that black Americans are overwhelmingly more dishonest (i.e. lying about police misconduct) or overwhelmingly more stupid (i.e. unable to identify actual misconduct) than white Americans, then I don’t see how this can be ignored or dismissed. It’s an utterly massive problem that huge amounts of black Americans see law enforcement as dangerous and malicious enemies, and telling them or implying that they’re lying or stupid, and that any problems they face are of their own making, probably isn’t the way to solve that problem IMO. > [@](#): > > If blacks don’t vote, that isn’t white privilege. Whether true or not, this doesn’t conflict with any of my points. > [@](#): > > It’s backing up my position. White female headed households have a poverty rate of 30% ([cite](https://nwlc.org/resources/national-snapshot-poverty-among-women-families-2015/)). Black married households have a poverty rate lower than the national average. Maybe there’s a privilege there, but it doesn’t seem to be white. > > Regards, > Shodan Whether true or not, this doesn’t conflict with any of my points. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/69 "2018-03-14T17:46:14Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > It’s odd that merit systems work so well in sports. Or do whites eschew being professional athletes that get paid millions of dollars and lots of recognition? Almost all of the sports teams are owned by billionaire whites. You would think they would hire more whites if there is desire to enforce white dominance. That’s exactly what they did for years and years. Does the name Jackie Robinson ring a bell? You should read about the shit the Dodgers got for hiring him, and the shit he got from the racist white players. Given the obviousness of the policy that you should hire from the entire pool of candidates, not just a subset, it sure took a while, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/70 "2018-03-14T17:49:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am not sure why you find it so interesting - crime, out-of-wedlock births, and dropping out of school are indeed “black” things, in the sense that they are disproportionately encountered among blacks in the US as compared to other groups, like whites and Asians. This is a truism. Which doesn’t make it a “black thing” unless one is deliberately attempting to link being black and committing crime, much in the way our current president repeatedly referenced “black”, “urban” and “crime” as inextricably linked things during the campaign. Is that what you are attempting to do? Or should we now make statements like “Murder is overwhelmingly committed by men, therefore it’s a man thing and men who don’t want to be considered murderers should act female.” > [@](#): > > And that disproportionate occurrence explains most of the negative outcomes also disproportionately encountered among blacks. Correlation is not the same as causation. > [@](#): > > See my previous cite. Single female headed households are disproportionately in poverty. A large majority of black children are born to unwed mothers. Do the math. So the math says the large majority of black children born to unwed mothers are poor. Wow. Are you saying that being poor is a “black thing” too? > [@](#): > > You’re welcome. Yes, white people should obey the law and not resist arrest, and then they (mostly) won’t get shot. So should everyone else, and then they will (mostly) not get shot. Of course, black people are more likely to get shot than white people engaging in the same behaviors (in fact they’re [twice as likely to get shot even if they’re unarmed](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-americans-shot-dead-police-shooting-twice-likely-white-people-us-african-american-a7567471.html)). So I guess black people have to be extra-law-abiding. Oh look - white privilege in action. > [@](#): > > ETA - First, you need to establish that those white people are really being discriminated against, and it is not just a smokescreen or an excuse. Then, knock yourself out. Well, that’s one for **SamuelA**. It’s a point he makes a lot, so I’m sure he’s got plenty of evidence for it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/71 "2018-03-14T17:59:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Eric Garner and Michael Brown and Jamar Clark and most of the others BLM fulminates over did break the law and resist arrest. > > Whether true or not, it doesn’t conflict with my point. Yes, of course it conflicts with your point. A large majority of the time, people who don’t resist arrest don’t get shot - black or white. > [@](#): > > We’ve gone back and forth on this many times. Lots of data has been presented (about police conduct as a whole, not just for shootings) that I find compelling and you do not – the Ferguson report, various disparities in arrest rates and drug use, shooting disparities, etc. The one I find most compelling I’ve presented many times (if you need it again I’m sure I can dig it up, but I think I’ve memorized the numbers): 50% of black Americans report that they, personally, have been mistreated by law enforcement, while only 3% of white Americans do. Unless you think that black Americans are overwhelmingly more dishonest (i.e. lying about police misconduct) or overwhelmingly more stupid (i.e. unable to identify actual misconduct) than white Americans, then I don’t see how this can be ignored or dismissed. It’s an utterly massive problem that huge amounts of black Americans see law enforcement as dangerous and malicious enemies, and telling them or implying that they’re lying or stupid, and that any problems they face are of their own making, probably isn’t the way to solve that problem IMO. You made the following claim - > [@](#): > > I have the privilege of being less likely to be shot even if I break the law or resist arrest, due to biases in society and law enforcement. If you can’t back up the claim, there is no reason to believe that you have any such privilege. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Whether true or not, this doesn’t conflict with any of my points. > > Whether true or not, this doesn’t conflict with any of my points. Yes, it does. Choosing whether or not to vote is not white privilege. Therefore, the result of getting or not getting the politicians you want is not the result of white privilege. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > It’s backing up my position. White female headed households have a poverty rate of 30% (cite). Black married households have a poverty rate lower than the national average. Maybe there’s a privilege there, but it doesn’t seem to be white. > > Whether true or not, this doesn’t conflict with any of my points. Again, yes, it certainly does conflict with your opinion. Single female-headed households tend to be poor. Even if they are white. That’s not white privilege. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/72 "2018-03-14T18:03:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, of course it conflicts with your point. A large majority of the time, people who don’t resist arrest don’t get shot - black or white. Whether true or not, I never made a contrary claim. > [@](#): > > You made the following claim - If you can’t back up the claim, there is no reason to believe that you have any such privilege. I already know you don’t believe it. We’ve gone back and forth on this and related issues probably dozens of times. I have no illusions that I can convince you. I just described the data that I found compelling, while I recognize that you do not. It’s okay to disagree. > [@](#): > > Yes, it does. > > Choosing whether or not to vote is not white privilege. Therefore, the result of getting or not getting the politicians you want is not the result of white privilege. Whether true or not, I have not made any contrary claim. > [@](#): > > Again, yes, it certainly does conflict with your opinion. Single female-headed households tend to be poor. Even if they are white. That’s not white privilege. > > Regards, > Shodan Whether true or not, I have not made any claim contrary to this. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/73 "2018-03-14T18:34:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Which doesn’t make it a “black thing” unless one is deliberately attempting to link being black and committing crime, much in the way our current president repeatedly referenced “black”, “urban” and “crime” as inextricably linked things during the campaign. Is that what you are attempting to do? Remember how you put some “alls” in there when I didn’t? Same here as with “inextricably”. > [@](#): > > Or should we now make statements like “Murder is overwhelmingly committed by men, therefore it’s a man thing and men who don’t want to be considered murderers should act female.” Well, that’s a little clumsily worded, but I think you are getting the idea. > [@](#): > > Correlation is not the same as causation. I assume you would say the same thing about your cite from _The Independent_. > [@](#): > > So the math says the large majority of black children born to unwed mothers are poor. Wow. I don’t think you did the math right. Earlier you put in “all” and “inextricably” where they didn’t belong - here you left “disproportionate” out when it did. > [@](#): > > Well, that’s one for **SamuelA**. It’s a point he makes a lot, so I’m sure he’s got plenty of evidence for it. You’d have to take that up with him. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whether true or not, I never made a contrary claim. > > I already know you don’t believe it. We’ve gone back and forth on this and related issues probably dozens of times. I have no illusions that I can convince you. I just described the data that I found compelling, while I recognize that you do not. > > It’s okay to disagree. > > Whether true or not, I have not made any contrary claim. > > Whether true or not, I have not made any claim contrary to this. OK, at least we have established that poverty, police shootings, and electing white politicians is not a result of white privilege. Progress, I guess. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/74 "2018-03-14T18:49:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK, at least we have established that poverty, police shootings, and electing white politicians is not a result of white privilege. Progress, I guess. Ahh, I see that Snarkmaster **Shodan** has returned! Welcome back! Let me know if the thoughtful **Shodan** , who’s actually a pleasure to debate and even disagree with, returns. These are tough issues worthy of thought and consideration, IMO, even when we disagree. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/75 "2018-03-14T18:55:46Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > It’s odd that merit systems work so well in sports. Or do whites eschew being professional athletes that get paid millions of dollars and lots of recognition? Almost all of the sports teams are owned by billionaire whites. You would think they would hire more whites if there is desire to enforce white dominance. In sports, your merit is what you put on the field. It is right there out in the open, and anyone who’s fairly knowledgeable about your sport can judge it pretty accurately. Therefore, a team owner has less ability to use non-merit hiring criteria - the team would lose. This is not to say that owners (and scouts and coaches and players) aren’t prejudiced, or that sports hiring practices aren’t influenced by an old boys’ network, because they are. What I’m saying is that **outside** of sports those things are much easier to get away with, because the same kind of public scrutiny is not there. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/76 "2018-03-14T19:03:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Remember how you put some “alls” in there when I didn’t? Same here as with “inextricably”. And yet your comments once again fail to contain any qualifiers to suggest that your blanket statements aren’t intended to be read as applying to, if not to all and in all cases and times, then to the vast majority in the majority of cases and times. Have you got some new form of autocorrect that removes the word “some” from your posts? And I duly note that your answer to the question asked isn’t “no”'. > [@](#): > > Well, that’s a little clumsily worded, but I think you are getting the idea. I am indeed, murderer. > [@](#): > > I assume you would say the same thing about your cite from _The Independent_. You are certainly welcome to, but they make a better supported case than you do. > [@](#): > > I don’t think you did the math right. Earlier you put in “all” and “inextricably” where they didn’t belong - here you left “disproportionate” out when it did. And this would change the point I made how? If anything, it provides an alternate view that all the things you are classifying as “black” things are actually “poor” things. > [@](#): > > You’d have to take that up with him. I’m sure he can speak for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/77 "2018-03-14T19:25:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And yet your comments once again fail to contain any qualifiers to suggest that your blanket statements aren’t intended to be read as applying to, if not to all and in all cases and times, then to the vast majority in the majority of cases and times. Do you know what the word “disproportionate” means? How about “most”? > [@](#): > > Have you got some new form of autocorrect that removes the word “some” from your posts? When I mean some, I say “some”. When I mean most, I say “most”. When I mean greater than one would expect from their distribution in the population, I say “disproportionate”. > [@](#): > > And I duly note that your answer to the question asked isn’t “no”'. Good for you! > [@](#): > > You are certainly welcome to, but they make a better supported case than you do. Why does your study establish causality and mine only correlation? That seems excessively glib. > [@](#): > > I’m sure he can speak for himself. Then don’t try to get me to speak for him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/78 "2018-03-14T19:42:56Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I am indeed, murderer. This rhetorical device you are using is better suited to other forums. Please do not name call. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/79 "2018-03-14T21:07:57Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > … She argues that “every white person—no matter how rich or poor, old or young, educated or uneducated, can and should step up and work toward dismantling systemic racism and fight for equity and social justice.” She gives no suggestion as to how that “dismantling” would occur.[/FONT] She’s not in the “fixing things” business. She is in the “white privilege” business. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468/80 "2018-03-14T21:41:08Z")
So, to properly answer the original question in the thread title: Yes, merit systems **are** methods of enforcing white dominance, because (for most practical purposes) the ones that are used aren’t actually based on merit - they just like to make that claim. And if all such systems **were** suddenly based on pure merit and nothing else, the results (in terms of white vs not white) would gradually change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-merit-systems-in-academia-and-work-a-method-of-enforcing-white-dominance/810468.md?page=5)