# Are militant atheists real? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920 "2014-04-25T03:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/41 "2014-04-25T12:07:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Bull. The polls don’t show that atheists are distrusted because they are people, otherwise all groups would poll equally. Didn’t say it did. I was making a little joke that all people suck. Atheists don’t have a claim on the moral high ground any more than the religious do. I’m non-religious by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/42 "2014-04-25T12:07:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Depends. That phrase is used as justification to condemn all gay people. But is the phrase alone enough to call someone “militant”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/43 "2014-04-25T12:09:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Didn’t say it did. I was making a little joke that all people suck. Atheists don’t have a claim on the moral high ground any more than the religious do. Nobody is making that claim-it was just pointed out that just _being_ an atheist is enough for a significant number of people to distrust you. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/44 "2014-04-25T12:23:22Z")
[Merriam-Webster’s definition of militant](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/militant): having or showing a desire or willingness to use strong, extreme, and sometimes forceful methods to achieve something I don’t think I’ve ever listened to Christian talk radio, so I can’t address whether those programs are militant or not. I’ve heard and read of various religious types, Christian or otherwise, who easily fit the definition. And the reason I brought up Penn Jillette is that he was the first very vocal atheist I ever heard, and he reminded me very much of fundamentalists who were equally vocal about their beliefs. When I saw the topic of this thread, he immediately came to mind as a “Yes.” Had I known this would have been viewed as such an extreme comment, I’d have kept it to myself. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/45 "2014-04-25T12:23:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Why should I care? I have such a name myself. Noah? Adam? Jesus? Mo? Pray tell!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/46 "2014-04-25T12:28:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But is the phrase alone enough to call someone “militant”? Sorry this is IMHO so I won’t play your little GD word games. Don’t try to maneuver me into a position. It depends on how it is used and you know it. That one phrase would not give anyone enough to go on to form an opinion, especially a trite and worn out expression like that. (I know, this is where you say “So how does that one quote from Penn prove…” It doesn’t. But you asked for a quote and I gave one.) The guy has written two books and has a weekly podcast talking about atheism. I don’t know any militant atheists in real life. Penn Jillette is a militant atheist. And I bet he would wear that phrase as a badge of honor. He is the atheist version of a fire and brimstone preacher. Outside of the Dope I never think of religion. Penn is the opposite. He is an atheist attack dog. And I’m a big fan. Do you remember a few years back there was a t-shirt popular with the born agains that said “No God?” on the front and “Know God” on the back? Penn had a shirt that said “No God” with nothing on the back. He is in your face and confrontational about his atheism. Luckily he is also articulate and funny at the same time. I don’t know why you think that the word militant means it has to be someone calling for violence. It can but it doesn’t have to. > [@](#): > > combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods. Penn is totally non-violent but everything else is spot on. Have you listened to him? He is combative and aggressive, extreme and confrontational in his discussions on religion. Above someone asked if he is still on radio. No, but he does have a good podcast called Penn’s Sunday School. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/47 "2014-04-25T12:29:36Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > [Merriam-Webster’s definition of militant](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/militant): having or showing a desire or willingness to use strong, extreme, and sometimes forceful methods to achieve something > > I don’t think I’ve ever listened to Christian talk radio, so I can’t address whether those programs are militant or not. I’ve heard and read of various religious types, Christian or otherwise, who easily fit the definition. And the reason I brought up Penn Jillette is that he was the first very vocal atheist I ever heard, and he reminded me very much of fundamentalists who were equally vocal about their beliefs. When I saw the topic of this thread, he immediately came to mind as a “Yes.” > > Had I known this would have been viewed as such an extreme comment, I’d have kept it to myself. It’s just that being vocal is setting the bar _very_ low when it comes to labeling someone as “militant”, and that perhaps “strident” might be a more accurate term. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/48 "2014-04-25T12:32:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s just that being vocal is setting the bar _very_ low when it comes to labeling someone as “militant”, and that perhaps “strident” might be a more accurate term. If you wish to argue with the dictionary I guess you can but I don’t think you’ll get very far. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/49 "2014-04-25T12:35:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If you wish to argue with the dictionary I guess you can but I don’t think you’ll get very far. I just want the term applied accurately _and equally_ on both sides of the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/50 "2014-04-25T12:42:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just want the term applied accurately _and equally_ on both sides of the equation. Agreed. I only see “militant” used for Christians if they’re bombing abortion clinics. Words alone make an atheist “militant.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/51 "2014-04-25T12:49:18Z")
To answer the OP, of course there are militant atheists. They even had a [league](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/52 "2014-04-25T12:49:58Z")
Ugh, edit window timed out. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just want the term applied accurately _and equally_ on both sides of the equation. Agreed. I only see “militant” used for Christians if they’re bombing abortion clinics. Words alone make an atheist “militant.” Trying to keep religion out of government or even just talking about why one doesn’t believe in gods or why one believes that if the biblical God did exist he should be considered evil: “militant.” And, if you’ll forgive the term, “proselytizing” by a religious person is tolerated or even expected in certain circumstances even outside church, but if an atheist tries to convince people to not believe in a deity - “militant”. Genuinely sharing why you believe and how you feel God’s love (in a sentence or two) in a conversation is all well and fine. Do the opposite, and you’re “militant.” A billboard or bus ad that God is Great or Jesus Saves or even Repent or Burn is fine. One that God doesn’t exist or advocates killing women and children and keeping the virgins for yourself (Numbers) is “militant.” ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/53 "2014-04-25T12:53:07Z")
I’ve only seen “militant” used as a politically-correct means to soften an argument. Someone who would normally say “Atheists are leading to the downfall of humanity!” softens the argument by instead saying “Militant atheists are leading to the downfall of humanity!”. That way you aren’t blaming the totality of a group of people for the downfall of humanity, just the “bad” ones. The ambiguity of what “militant” means is intentional. That way it can mean “only the atheists who bomb churches”, which most people would agree are bad, but can still dog-whistle “pretty much every atheist” to the in-crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/54 "2014-04-25T12:55:29Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I only see “militant” used for Christians if they’re bombing abortion clinics. Ever hear of the “[Church militant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_militant_and_church_triumphant)”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/55 "2014-04-25T12:58:19Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Ever hear of the “[Church militant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_militant_and_church_triumphant)”? I have, but I would guess that most people, including Christians, haven’t heard the term “militant” used in that particular way. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/56 "2014-04-25T13:03:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have, but I would guess that most people, including Christians, haven’t heard the term “militant” used in that particular way. You’re probably right, but it makes me wonder whether any of the modern implications of the word “militant” can be traced back to that term. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/57 "2014-04-25T13:10:31Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > A billboard or bus ad that God is Great or Jesus Saves or even Repent or Burn is fine. One that God doesn’t exist or advocates killing women and children and keeping the virgins for yourself (Numbers) is “militant.” The _word_ “Atheist” on a bus ad is [enough](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/02/28/the-most-inoffensive-atheist-bus-ad-ever-rejected/) to “offend”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/58 "2014-04-25T13:16:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The _word_ “Atheist” on a bus ad is [enough](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/02/28/the-most-inoffensive-atheist-bus-ad-ever-rejected/) to “offend”. [With update on second attempt.](http://justinvacula.com/2013/09/19/atheists-bus-advertisement-again-rejected/) ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/59 "2014-04-25T14:44:18Z")
They exist. However, the sorts of things that get an atheist labeled “militant” are less likely to get a Christian (or other religious person) labeled “militant”. Some people see an expression of atheism as a deliberate attempt to be controversial or in-your-face. Some people make things up, like “the secular war on Christmas” because someone said “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. Has any major television network - viewed my millions - ever endorsed the idea that saying “Merry Christmas” is militant Christianity? Militant atheists are a lot like militant feminists. They do exist, especially on the Internet. But their numbers are wildly exaggerated by people with an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920/60 "2014-04-25T14:52:17Z")
[Madalyn Murray O’Hair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O'Hair) was about the most militant atheist in American history. WARNING: It is not a pretty story. I’m an atheist, but I’ll respect your right to believe what you want. No, you do not KNOW there is a god. You BELIEVE in that all stuff, but there is no way of knowing it. And yes, I am a moral person. The only time I get on my high horse is when people say without religion, there are no morals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-militant-atheists-real/686920.md?page=4)