# Are modern pens basically useless junk? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 5, 2024, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178 "2024-12-05T05:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/81 "2024-12-07T22:43:02Z")
At American Science and Surplus you can buy a 2lb box of pens for $10. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/82 "2024-12-08T04:28:58Z")
I use UniBall Jetstream RT and they’ve been great! ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/83 "2024-12-08T11:58:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The demand for pens has probably gone down significantly. I work in a training department. We used to have 3-4 classes a week in-house. Each person would get a company pen and pad of paper on their first day. If they asked for more pens, we never said no. We ordered pens and pads of paper by the case. COVID changed that. And then traveling got a lot more expensive. We have pens. Lots of them. Maybe we’ll order more in 2026. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/84 "2024-12-08T13:36:26Z")
If only there were “permanent” markers that actually were permanent, especially when used outdoors. Plant tags labeled with regular Sharpies don’t stay labeled more than a couple of months, as an assortment of now mystery potted fig trees can attest. “Industrial” Sharpies are better, but still far from permanent. “Fade resistant” Artline garden markers aren’t bad but their resistance gives out after awhile. Any recommendations for better label markers would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/85 "2024-12-08T13:50:08Z")
Maybe Paint pens would make better outdoor labels? It’s been a long time since I used one. Oil based [https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sharpie-Oil-Based-Medium-Point-White-Paint-Marker-1-Each/114843218](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sharpie-Oil-Based-Medium-Point-White-Paint-Marker-1-Each/114843218) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/86 "2024-12-08T14:06:15Z")
Pencil, surprisingly, holds up pretty well. But i use thin aluminum labels that you can “engrave” with a pencil point. Really, you bend the metal, not remove it, as you write. But i have labels i wrote decades again that are still completely legible. Like these: > **[Aluminum Identification Tags, 3in Length x 7/8in Width, Pack of 500 Tags by...](https://www.amleo.com/aluma-boss-aluminum-identification-tags-3-inches-x-7-8-inch/p/OAT)** > > These Aluma-Boss Tags feature a durable aluminum construction. Their double-faced design allows you to emboss on either side of the tag. These tags measure 3 inches long and 7/8-inch wide. They include separate 9-inch galvanized steel ties. Each box... (Pretty sure i was able to buy fewer for less money, but i bought a supply two decades ago, and I’m still using those.) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/87 "2024-12-08T15:17:41Z")
Hmm. Carbon black should be pretty fade-resistant, so try black acrylic markers (Posca or whatever) or black India-type ink (Pelikan Drawing Ink A #17 or whatever), or any width Pigma Micron ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/88 "2024-12-08T18:17:40Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If only there were “permanent” markers that actually were permanent, especially when used outdoors. > > [. . .] > > Any recommendations for better label markers would be appreciated Here you go: > **[Permanent Garden Pens | Store | DP Industries](https://www.dpind.com/store/Permanent-Garden-Pens-c172134603)** > > Finally, permanent marking pens that will last! Our Garden Pens are fast drying, waterproof, and contain a UV filter for maximum fade resistance. The Garden Pen garden accessories write on wood, plastic, metal, and more. Also available in a lot of garden stores/seed catalogs/etc. But it appears to be DP Industries who makes them, according to what mine say on them. Warning: do not leave the cap off for more than a couple of minutes when not actively writing. These are alcohol-based ink, and the tips will dry out rapidly and leave the pen useless. But the markings hold up beautifully in either field or greenhouse. @puzzlegal’s right about the effectively-engraved aluminum labels staying legible longest; though I don’t find them as easy to use. If you want to identify something for years on end, though, that’s the way to go. And any marker is best backed up with a field map – stored inside, and/or on computer/tablet/phone. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/89 "2024-12-08T18:37:15Z")
I just write on them with a dull pencil, and they work great. I actually find them easier to use than marker, because they don’t smudge. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/90 "2024-12-08T18:44:51Z")
My sense is that we use pens so infrequently that they tend to dry out by the time we go to use one. Probably, the chemistry needs to be tweaked for the modern era. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/91 "2024-12-08T19:14:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I just write on them with a dull pencil, and they work great. I actually find them easier to use than marker Sorry – I mistyped. I meant that I don’t find them as easy to read. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/92 "2024-12-08T19:23:49Z")
I have a monthly whiteboard calendar To keep notes on upcoming doctor’s appointments and other things, and bought a set of different colored markers. I swear that almost half the colors either don’t write or are so light they’re useless. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/93 "2024-12-08T19:50:39Z")
Oh, that’s fair. I can read them okay, but a black marker on a white background is easier. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/94 "2024-12-08T20:43:09Z")
Thanks for the permanent marker suggestions. I’ve actually been using those DP garden markers for awhile and while they work well enough, they don’t appear to be any longer-lasting under outdoor conditions than Sharpies. I decided to try some inexpensive acrylic paint markers which are billed as waterproof. We’ll see how that works out. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/95 "2024-12-08T21:23:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’ve actually been using those DP garden markers for awhile and while they work well enough, they don’t appear to be any longer-lasting under outdoor conditions than Sharpies. Huh. That’s interesting – for me they last much longer than Sharpies. Maybe we have different outdoor conditions. Or maybe I bought the wrong Sharpies; though they claimed to be waterproof. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/96 "2024-12-08T22:11:49Z")
I thought the typical problem with Sharpies is that they fade. Or are the ones branded “EXTREME FADE RESISTANT” just relabelled normal Sharpies? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/97 "2024-12-08T22:50:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The boxes in stock at stores may be a few years old. The demand for pens has probably gone down significantly. Word processors on computers are so popular. > > There was a point that I considered ordering custom checks that fit my printer. Use Quicken to pay bills. > > But, online payments became available and I cut back on using checks. I quit using Quicken a few years ago. So the answer to your opening rant is simple: - Throw away _every_ pen you own, no matter where you’ve squirreled it away. - Buy 1 or at most 2 Uniball / Pilot / Zebra quality gel pens. - Resist the silly temptation to have 20 partly used pens lying around everywhere. - Every 2 or 3 years, buy the same number again and immediately throw out the old ones. - Never again have a problem thinking pens are failing you. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/98 "2024-12-08T22:59:33Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > are the ones branded “EXTREME FADE RESISTANT” just relabelled normal Sharpies? I haven’t seen those. Maybe they’re relatively new? I stopped looking at Sharpies (for that purpose) years ago, when I came across the DP pens; so they might have been around for some years without my realizing it. Maybe I should take another look. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Resist the silly temptation to have 20 partly used pens lying around everywhere. But I use pens in close to 20 different places. (Well, maybe more like 10 or 12, depending on the time of year. But still a lot more than one or two.) Plus which, both cats and dog lose and/or destroy them; and I’m not going to run to town every time I need a pen. Or wait penless for even a day or two for one to arrive delivered, at a significant extra cost over buying the things a dozen at a time when I was in town anyway. If I try to use a pen and it doesn’t work, I throw it out (unless it’s refillable and I can get refills for it.) That takes care of a potential backlog of useless pens. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/99 "2024-12-08T23:03:46Z")
I’m also firmly on team “have a couple of pens handy in all the places where i might want pens.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178/100 "2024-12-08T23:16:35Z")
IMO our OP is far less disciplined than you folks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-modern-pens-basically-useless-junk/1011178.md?page=6)