# Are most of homeless people mentally ill? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848 "2013-01-20T23:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/21 "2013-01-21T16:20:15Z")
Is there any evidence (studies or anecdotes) indicating that being homeless _causes_ mental illness? There are plenty of anecdotes about people with mental illness preferring a homeless lifestyle or becoming homeless because mental illness impairs their ability to keep a job and home. Have you ever known a more or less normal 9-5 clock puncher who lost his job and became homeless due to the “one check away from homelessness and the check didn’t come soon enough” phenomenon and by the time he was able to get help and get off the streets he was seriously mentally ill and the illnesses did resolve or improve afterwards? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/22 "2013-01-21T17:50:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I was going to make a stupid wisecrack, but **usedtobe** nailed it. Just another benefit bestowed on us by St Ronald. Anybody with half a brain saw it coming and said that we had confined those people for a reason and asked where the hell are they going to live, but we got hemming, hawwing, and platitudes about private and religious charity for an answer. Didn’t work. ☹ As Governor, Reagan signed a bipartisan [measure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterman%E2%80%93Petris%E2%80%93Short_Act), championed by cost-cutters and civil libertarians, that largely ended long-term involuntary commitment. This was also a [goal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Mental_Health_Act) of the Kennedy Administration. This policy had such universal support that it was subsequently adopted by all 50 states, none of which has ever seriously sought to reverse it. Similarly, Reagan vetoed certain funding for community care in California, but this too has been bipartisan and universal. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Is there any evidence (studies or anecdotes) indicating that being homeless _causes_ mental illness? There are plenty of anecdotes about people with mental illness preferring a homeless lifestyle or becoming homeless because mental illness impairs their ability to keep a job and home. Have you ever known a more or less normal 9-5 clock puncher who lost his job and became homeless due to the “one check away from homelessness and the check didn’t come soon enough” phenomenon and by the time he was able to get help and get off the streets he was seriously mentally ill and the illnesses did resolve or improve afterwards? Schizophrenia is not situational. Substance abuse can be. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/23 "2013-01-21T18:03:40Z")
I can imagine a situation where someone is mildly mentally ill, but a support network keeps them together. Family, steady employment, health benefits, good nutrition and housing. Then take away any one of those things and suddenly you see a seriously mental ill person. Let one of those things be steady employment and you may be talking about a homeless person who’s seriously ill. Many street “crazy” people are not living under the bridge. They may actually have housing. There are places called “board and care”, aka “halfway” houses. A whole bunch of people are pushed into these places, where their SS check goes directly. Basic meals may be served, but that’s about it. No planned, structured activities. Many of these folks don’t have money BUT what SS provides, so they go out into the street to beg for money so they can buy a cup of coffee. Or just sit around, waiting for curfew. Lots of these people are heavily medicated as mandated by the law or by the conditions of their living situation. The medication may make them less crazy, but they are still crazy-looking. From first-hand experience, I know meds can actually make you look crazier in some ways. I’m willing to bet good money that difficulty complying with medication is the main reason why a seriously mentally ill person will find themselves on the street. I live around the corner from a board-and-care place, and I run my business on the main drag nearby. So I see the same cast of dishelved characters. If I didn’t know any better, I would assume they were homeless, but I’ve seen where they live. If I lived there, I would be a street urchin too. The only time I don’t see these folks just hanging out is when it’s pouring down raining. The more functional guys beg for change. The ones really out of the gourds just do a zombie parade up and down the street all day long, mumbling to themselves and freakin’ out the normals. There’s another place that I walk past on my way to my “real” job that is a similar deal, except the residents are a little more with it. I think the first place is for the mentally ill and this place is for the substance abused. But all of the guys kind of look the same. And they all look homeless, when technically they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/24 "2013-01-21T18:06:04Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Not all the blame can be put on Reagan. Ken Kesey deserves at last half of it. > > Seriously, what you had was a confluence of two movements: People who thought “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” was a documentary, … It was called the [Anti Psychiatry Movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry), and it was a very mixed blessing. It wasn’t solely an USA phenomenon; Italy was the most radical in implementing it. The [linked Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry)give a good overview. Interesting stuff. > [@grude](#): > > Every single country I have been in, including ones with generous social safety nets like Germany, have had a homeless/vagrant population. I disagree with the idea that lack of housing is the sole problem, it is mental illness along with or alongside hard core drug addiction. And unless you plan to force people into institutions at gunpoint you’re never going to eliminate the issue. Exactly. Same in the Netherlands. Usually the muttering cart-pushing homeless are actively avoiding social workers care. They may want the _bed/meal/shower_, but they don’t want the _therapy/push to lose the addiction/push to come back and give the system another try-approach._ ---
**Author:** ![listedmia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@listedmia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/listedmia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/25 "2013-01-21T18:19:11Z")
I wasn’t particularly nuts when I was homeless. I managed to hold down two part time jobs for some time. I was addicted to heroin part of the time though, and the only way I managed to get off it was by hopping on a freight train towards a city where I didn’t know anyone and had zero social support. I spent a while traveling around and being “homeless by choice” after that. My reasoning was basically “Settling down and trying to get a job in Chicago didn’t work, and I just spent all my money on dope and got super strung out. I am going to just panhandle and do odd jobs and make enough to survive and have some fun.” Travelers like I was are somewhat rare, though; most homeless people stay in one place. Anyways, I met my awesome fiance and moved in with him. Not having to worry about where I was sleeping every night meant I could concentrate on other things. I finally got identification again, and having an address meant the welfare office could finally send me a food stamp card, and I got an awesome job. I’ve been living in this house for a year, and it’s so nice to have not only a roof over my head, but lights, water and internet. It’s the longest I’ve stayed in one place since I turned 18. ---
**Author:** ![listedmia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@listedmia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/listedmia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/26 "2013-01-21T18:30:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > … > > Many street “crazy” people are not living under the bridge. They may actually have housing. There are places called “board and care”, aka “halfway” houses. A whole bunch of people are pushed into these places, where their SS check goes directly. Basic meals may be served, but that’s about it. No planned, structured activities. Many of these folks don’t have money BUT what SS provides, so they go out into the street to beg for money so they can buy a cup of coffee. Or just sit around, waiting for curfew. Lots of these people are heavily medicated as mandated by the law or by the conditions of their living situation. The medication may make them less crazy, but they are still crazy-looking. From first-hand experience, I know meds can actually make you look crazier in some ways. I’m willing to bet good money that difficulty complying with medication is the main reason why a seriously mentally ill person will find themselves on the street. > > … I spent a couple months in a fleabag hotel where my boyfriend was literally the ONLY person with a job. Everyone else there got SSI and pretty much spent their whole checks on housing. They went out panhandling for food money or sold their medications to people and bought crack, and pretty much looked like your classic crazy homeless people. We didn’t have laundry in the hotel and the hot water was sporadic, so we looked pretty grungy ourselves. Rent was around $600 a month, which is about as cheap as you can find in Chicago, and you didn’t need references, a credit check or a security deposit. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/27 "2013-01-21T18:35:28Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > It was called the [Anti Psychiatry Movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry), and it was a very mixed blessing. It wasn’t solely an USA phenomenon; Italy was the most radical in implementing it. The [linked Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry)give a good overview. Interesting stuff. In the US, deinstitutionalization was a pro-psychiatry phenomenon, as policy-makers believed that effective pharmaceutical treatment for mental health issues was at hand and could be administered as effectively in an outpatient setting as in an institution. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/28 "2013-01-21T19:23:39Z")
The following is a mix of my experiences and stuff pulled out of my ass- Last time I checked, Philadelphia had 200 to 300 long term homeless people. Most of these people were mentally ill, addicted to something, or in many cases both. Until fairly recently, most programs were really set up to deal with mental illness or addiction but not both at once. I learned here on the SDMB, that there are programs to give some homeless people cell phones- not so they could call anybody. The purpose was to teach them to talk into the phone rather than into the air, and thus appear to be having a conversation with an actual person and cause others around them to treat them normally. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/29 "2013-01-21T22:06:45Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Talking to the air, or using their phones with bluetooth? Always a good question these days. It can be hard to tell (especially if hair or headgear is covering the talker’s ears) whether they’re on the phone or arguing with Mr./Ms. Invisible. ---
**Author:** ![listedmia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@listedmia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/listedmia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/30 "2013-01-21T23:30:03Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > The following is a mix of my experiences and stuff pulled out of my ass- > > Last time I checked, Philadelphia had 200 to 300 long term homeless people. Most of these people were mentally ill, addicted to something, or in many cases both. Until fairly recently, most programs were really set up to deal with mental illness or addiction but not both at once. > > I learned here on the SDMB, that there are programs to give some homeless people cell phones- not so they could call anybody. The purpose was to teach them to talk into the phone rather than into the air, and thus appear to be having a conversation with an actual person and cause others around them to treat them normally. There are programs to give non-crazy homeless and poor people cell phones too. [Here is one](http://www.assurancewireless.com/Public/Welcome.aspx), they send me a lot of junk mail. A cell phone is a super awesome thing to have when you are homeless. It’s nearly impossible to get a job or some day labor if an employer can’t call you, and (at least in my area) the welfare office conducts interviews over the phone, so if you are trying to get food stamps or something, you need to be reachable by them. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/31 "2013-01-21T23:51:15Z")
My understanding is the majority of long term homeless are either mentally ill or addicted (which is another form of mental illness). The short term homeless are more people who are between jobs, got out of a bad relationship, etc. The short term homeless are also more likely to do things like live in their car, I don’t ‘think’ the long term homeless really do that. I think some mentally ill people can give the illusion of just being eccentric, they aren’t all truly erratic to the point where their disability is obvious. So I don’t know if you could really tell just by glimpsing on them if they are mentally ill and need help. After de-institutionalization, the jails/prisons became the go to medical centers for the mentally ill. Something like 25%+ of people in jails and prisons are mentally ill. I tried looking up stats, and I think it is cheaper to warehouse the mentally ill in jail/prison than in mental hospitals. That doesn’t mean it is ethical (a criminal record will follow a lot of them), but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least some politicians know about that fact that prison was cheaper and felt it was a good trade. I’ve also heard a big part of de-institutionalization was the belief that community health centers would follow the mentally ill and make sure they are doing ok, which they didn’t. The severely mentally ill usually don’t vote and politicians can write them off. So the prisons/jails ended up picking up the slack for the failed mental health situation (which is also a problem of society, we don’t want to admit mental illness even exists). ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/32 "2013-01-22T00:53:38Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I learned here on the SDMB, that there are programs to give some homeless people cell phones- not so they could call anybody. The purpose was to teach them to talk into the phone rather than into the air, and thus appear to be having a conversation with an actual person and cause others around them to treat them normally. Wait, is this true or a whoosh? I know about the “Obamaphone,” and have seen local implementations here. That was a SD rationale? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/33 "2013-01-22T00:55:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …or addicted (which is another form of mental illness)… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/34 "2013-01-22T01:02:59Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Wait, is this true or a whoosh? I know about the “Obamaphone,” and have seen local implementations here. That was a SD rationale? Cite? I’d have a hard time finding the cite. It was a thread on the SDMB on mental illness. We were discussing the stigma associated with mental illness. IIRC This was before Safelink or Assurance came about. I suggested, seriously, giving those mentally ill folks who talked to nobody an old cell phone. They’d still have the same problems EXCEPT that people would not treat them as though they were crazy. Somebody replied that they were a social worker or somesuch and they already had such a program It wasn’t a rationale for SafeLink or Assurance. We were specifically discussing giving dead cell phones to people so they would no longer appear ‘insane’. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/35 "2013-01-22T01:18:27Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > … We were specifically discussing giving dead cell phones to people so they would no longer appear ‘insane’. Sounds like SD. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/36 "2013-01-22T02:03:37Z")
The problem with giving the mentally ill fake cellphones so they can simulate normalcy is that they don’t think they’re just talking into the air. You can’t just give someone a phone and say “when you’re talking to someone who isn’t really there, hold this up to your face”, because if they knew that who they’re talking to wasn’t really there, they wouldn’t be talking to them. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/37 "2013-01-22T04:18:09Z")
See, **brujaja** , I come at this from a completely different perspective (I’m an urban public librarian.) So I deal with a ton of homeless people. And I don’t get it for a lot of them, because for me the hard part of doing my job is waking up every goddamned morning and showing up. And they are CHAMPS at that. Take a shit on the floor, hide your booze in the ceiling, run hookers in the 900’s - whatever, but showing up, they got that handled. (Partly because of course the shelters kick them out a certain time.) And some of them are obviously mentally ill. And some have serious substance issues. But if you have neither and you can show up every day before I show up, and you have literally millions of books to read and programs and great activists to help you out and… you take the newspaper all day and do nothing? I just don’t know how to feel sorry anymore. ETA - please don’t tell me they also have literacy issues - I know and I can spot that, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/38 "2013-01-22T06:19:45Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > Remember that, like so many aspects of our modern lives, living by the clock and dull, repetitive labor (i.e., low-paying type jobs) are relatively recent additions. (Subsistence farming, which most humans have done throughout most of our history, may be repetitive, but it’s not dull.) It is also not done “on the clock”: this is one of the main problems faced by companies setting up in locations which had formerly been mostly agricultural. People take a while to understand that “it was my turn to water the fields, I’ll just make it up later” works if you’re an artisan but not if you’re in a production line. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/39 "2013-01-22T15:45:38Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > Being able to get up at the same time every day, and go to the same place, and do the same thing, is a separate skill that _ **not everyone has.** _ It is nothing to do with laziness. … I found a job where my hours are very, very flexible. This post “rung a bell” with me. I’ve sometimes thought of revealing some of my own secrets in this anonymous forum, but get poor reception when I try. Many years ago, there was a time when I was homeless, destitute and hungry. I eventually succeeded despite myself because I have a few computer-related wizard-level skills and found very flexible employers. … I’ve sometimes thought of wearing cellphone-style earphones so people think I’m talking on the phone when I wander around talking to myself. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848/40 "2013-01-22T17:04:12Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I was going to make a stupid wisecrack, but **usedtobe** nailed it. Just another benefit bestowed on us by St Ronald. Anybody with half a brain saw it coming and said that we had confined those people for a reason and asked where the hell are they going to live, but we got hemming, hawwing, and platitudes about private and religious charity for an answer. Didn’t work. ☹ Umm, excuse me, but I’m going to dissent. Before the 1980s, there was a lot more cheap lodging available in the cities. People who have been diagnosed with a psych diagnosis are among the most vulnerable population. Among other reasons, you LOSE YOUR HOME pretty often when you get hauled off to the looney bin and held there for more than a couple days. It keeps you from obtaining money (however you might have been obtaining it) and/or paying for your lodging (to whomever you were paying it). Anyway, in the 1980s, cheap places to sleep disappeared on an unprededented scale. More people trying to rent the same remaining inexpensive spots means the most vulnerable people don’t have a place to sleep. Institutional psychiatry tends to creates homelessness by isolating people from their stable or semi-stable living situations. And it was the loss of cheap digs, more than psych deinstitutionalization, that made so many folks with psych diagnoses homeless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-most-of-homeless-people-mentally-ill/647848.md?page=3)