# Are Muslim woman required to wear shawls in the hospital? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 19, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282 "2012-10-19T22:17:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/1 "2012-10-19T22:17:49Z")
They released the first hospital photo of Malala, the Pakistan girl that got shot. There’s some sort of towel or blanket on her head. I’m guessing an improvised shawl? Are Muslim woman required to wear shawls in the hospital? Really Malala is just a teenage kid, but she wears a shawl in photos of her before the shooting… Sounds like she was really lucky. Already standing and writing notes. photo [![](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/19/article-2219509-1594D24B000005DC-905_306x423.jpg) ](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/19/article-2219509-1594D24B000005DC-905_306x423.jpg) story > **['Thanks for all your support': Taliban shooting victim Malala, 15, pictured...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219509/Malala-Yousafzai-First-picture-Taliban-shooting-victim-hospital-bed-doctors-say-able-stand.html)** > > This is the first picture of shot Pakistani schoolgirl Malala Yousafzai in her hospital bed. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/2 "2012-10-19T22:28:19Z")
Not all Muslim women are required to wear shawls. After all, it’s not actually the religion that mandates that practice, but rather the culture. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/3 "2012-10-19T22:38:44Z")
And Muslim _girls_ aren’t required to wear it up to a certain age, I believe. Ever see pix of kids playing in the streets? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/4 "2012-10-19T22:48:16Z")
I think any woman, regardless of culture or religion would likely wear something that would cover bullet wounds to their head and neck if someone was planning on photographing her for international publication. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/5 "2012-10-19T23:43:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Not all Muslim women are required to wear shawls. After all, it’s not actually the religion that mandates that practice, but rather the culture. Well, but the basis for the culture is the religious teachings, w/ respect to Islam. In most conservative Muslim societies, the test of where women should wear hair covering would be whether or not you are likely to encounter men who are not from your family circle. This would include the hospital. There’s a general notion to cover women: [Surah Al-Ahzab - 59 - Quran.com](http://quran.com/33/59) except for men in the family circle: [Surah An-Nur - 31 - Quran.com](http://quran.com/24/31) As with almost all religions, there becomes sort of a contest to see who can extrapolate the source edict to the greatest extreme…and as with almost all religions, it’s all in the “interpretation.” But as a rule of thumb, in Malala’s home country of Pakistan, women would typically have their head covered out of modesty. The folks with whom I worked growing up there always covered their heads outside the home, even in the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/6 "2012-10-19T23:49:00Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Well, but the basis for the culture is the religious teachings, w/ respect to Islam. I’m not all that convinced of that. There’s just too much variety in the practice–or lack of it–for me to find it persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/7 "2012-10-20T00:52:52Z")
As a college student, I worked in a nursing home. Although none of our patients were Muslim, we did have a few who were of an Anabaptist sect whose women wore their hair covered. The patients who practiced this had a special night covering for when they were in bed and their regular covering when they were dressed for the dining or day room. As I said, not Muslim, but one with a similar practice in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/8 "2012-10-20T01:29:00Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > In most conservative Muslim societies, the test of where women should wear hair covering would be whether or not you are likely to encounter men who are not from your family circle. This would include the hospital. This is the key. I would add that it would include, besides a hospital, having your picture taken. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/9 "2012-10-20T01:32:43Z")
I imagine that they had to shave a significant portion of her hair to do the surgery she required, I can understand why she (or possibly the medical staff/guardians) didn’t want her photo taken with drains and icp catheter poking out of her surgical site visible. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/10 "2012-10-20T01:40:56Z")
That’s a good point. Since this photo will be heavily distributed in Muslim media. They want to present her in as positive a light as possible. A good Muslim shot by the Taliban. I’d hope that normally she wouldn’t have to wear that heavy thing in hospital. It must be pretty hot. Modesty just isn’t practical in a hospital. Especially with hung over metal head orderlies giving you sponge baths and fetching bed pans. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is the key. I would add that it would include, besides a hospital, having your picture taken. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/11 "2012-10-20T01:44:11Z")
I love the way that a 14 year old girl is being presented as a “girl”. Of course she is a girl to us civilised folk, but let’s face facts - in Afghanistan 57% of girls under 16 are married ([horrifying cite](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216553/International-Day-Girl-Child-2012-Devastating-images-terrifying-world-child-brides.html)) and she is from the pashtun culture that makes up Afghanistan (I remind you it was the Taliban after her). ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/12 "2012-10-20T01:48:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Especially with hung over metal head orderlies giving you sponge baths and fetching bed pans. Not a UK trope btw. What you would call orderlies, we call porters and they just push wheelchairs, trolleys and transfer patients between wards/departments. Healthcare assistants or nurses generally manage hygiene issues for patients who can’t manage for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/13 "2012-10-20T01:48:34Z")
The mere fact she has been attacked should tell you about the evil of that culture, really. And yes she should be veiled by that nasty mysoginistic anti-progress scummy thing. And also by the way, this leads, as the OP is basically asking, to horrific outcomes to muslim women in terms of healthcare compared to muslim men. In so many countries, women cannot be treated by male doctors (without the husband present). And yet it’s rare to find a woman doctor! Yes, it is true that islam itself can be interpreted in other ways that this stuff doesn’t have to happen. But when you hear the world islam you should assume barbaric behaviour, statistically speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/14 "2012-10-20T01:49:56Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > But when you hear the world islam you should assume barbaric behaviour, statistically speaking. Nonsense. Utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/15 "2012-10-20T02:11:05Z")
Speaking as a thoroughly westernized woman of liberal bent - If **I** had been shot in the head and was being photographed I would rather not show the bloody wound and swollen bits. You’d probably find me with a scarf around my head, too. The fact she comes from a culture where head covering is regarded as a form of modesty only adds to that. For all we know SHE asked for the shawl before being photographed - and if she did, her wishes should be respected, correct? Tempest in a teapot, really, compared to the real crime here, that of shooting a girl/woman for daring to speak up for women. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/16 "2012-10-20T02:16:05Z")
I’m not upset about the photo. Just curious. Somehow the image of a woman in a burka giving birth comes to mind. 😉 I guess anything is possible in some religions. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/17 "2012-10-20T02:32:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s a good point. Since this photo will be heavily distributed in Muslim media. They want to present her in as positive a light as possible. A good Muslim shot by the Taliban… Whereas if the photographers wanted the greatest impact in Western media she would’ve been photographed sans headcovering with as much of her wounds exposed to the world as possible. > [@Szlater](#): > > …Healthcare assistants or nurses generally manage hygiene issues for patients who can’t manage for themselves. Even in the States most of support staff like nurses or nurses’ aids (basically anyone without Dr in front of their name) are female, so it’s usually the extremely modest male patients that run into issues with personal care. It’s rarely a problem to accomodate women. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m not upset about the photo. Just curious. Somehow the image of a woman in a burka giving birth comes to mind. 😉 I guess anything is possible in some religions. Under the Taliban this frequently resulted in a male physician standing behind a partition shouting instructions to a female midwife. Most women were lucky to get that. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/18 "2012-10-20T10:31:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m not upset about the photo. Just curious. Somehow the image of a woman in a burka giving birth comes to mind. 😉 I guess anything is possible in some religions. Most Western women keep their breasts covered in the hospital unless there’s a medical reason why it’s inconvenient. Even women who normally sleep with their breasts uncovered at home will sleep with them covered in the hospital. Even a woman who had to go shirtless at the hospital for whatever reason would probably grab a towel to cover her breasts for a photo. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/19 "2012-10-20T10:43:34Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Well, but the basis for the culture is the religious teachings, w/ respect to Islam. > > In most conservative Muslim societies, the test of where women should wear hair covering would be whether or not you are likely to encounter men who are not from your family circle. This would include the hospital. > > There’s a general notion to cover women: [Surah Al-Ahzab - 59 - Quran.com](http://quran.com/33/59) except for men in the family circle: [Surah An-Nur - 31 - Quran.com](http://quran.com/24/31) > > As with almost all religions, there becomes sort of a contest to see who can extrapolate the source edict to the greatest extreme…and as with almost all religions, it’s all in the “interpretation.” But as a rule of thumb, in Malala’s home country of Pakistan, women would typically have their head covered out of modesty. The folks with whom I worked growing up there always covered their heads outside the home, even in the hospital. Bullshit. I am Muslim. I am from and live in Pakistan. I am from the exact same ethnic group as Malala. No there is no general requirement or expectation that show would do so. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282/20 "2012-10-20T10:44:41Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > But when you hear the world islam you should assume barbaric behaviour, statistically speaking. Go fuck yourself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-muslim-woman-required-to-wear-shawls-in-the-hospital/638282.md?page=2)