# Are orcas dolphins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199 "2011-12-06T00:05:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/21 "2011-12-06T16:08:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Cetaceans are whales, dolphins, or porpoises, but not all marine mammals are cetaceans. There are also the pinnipeds (seals, walri, and such) and sirenia (manatees, sea cows, etc.). Plus debateably some members of Carnivora like otters and polar bears. Pinnipeds are part of the order Carnivora. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/22 "2011-12-06T16:12:26Z")
In the last hour, I have encountered “boni” as a plural of “bonus” and “walri” as a plural of “walrus” on this message board. We are obviously being invaded by body snatching Romans from the 1st century AD! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/23 "2011-12-06T16:34:03Z")
Would that be the Romi? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/24 "2011-12-06T16:35:08Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I suppose I should be happy to have my ignorance fought, but my pride is involved, so we’ll just leave it as Screw your pride. There is no shame in saying “I learned something new today.” ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/25 "2011-12-06T16:39:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Would that be the Romi? An off-topic hijack made thread winner this morning. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/26 "2011-12-06T16:52:31Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > No, no, I assured him, orcas and dolphins are certainly related, but they are separate species. Nope, he insisted, orcas really are dolphins. Seriously, I countered, gorillas and human beings are both members of the primate family, but that doesn’t make a gorilla a human being, and it doesn’t make an orca a dolphin. “X is really a Y not a Z” discussions are usually pointless when you’re talking about closely related types. It’s all about defining your terminology and the purpose of your classification. For example “Chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys.” Yeah, well that’s true for a certain set of definitions useful to zoologists, but it’s certainly not necessarily true for more general or even historical uses of those terms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/27 "2011-12-06T17:01:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > For example “Chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys.” > > Yeah, well that’s true for a certain set of definitions useful to zoologists, but it’s certainly not necessarily true for more general or even historical uses of those terms. It’s not even useful scientifically, since African monkeys are more closely related to chimps than they are to South American monkeys. It’s exactly analogous to the orca/dolphin situation. Orcas are big and look like “whales” in the same way chimps are big and look like “apes”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/28 "2011-12-06T17:25:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Would that be the Romi? Conjugate the verb! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/29 "2011-12-06T17:30:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Conjugate the verb! Right here in public? Isn’t that illegal? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/30 "2011-12-06T21:38:51Z")
You don’t have to admit you were wrong, you just have to admit you were confused: “Dude, I just didn’t get what you were saying. I thought you mean orcas were the same species as flipper, and I knew that was crazy. But you meant they were a different species of dolphin, and I looked it up, and dang, you’re right. Orcas (and pilot whales) are all in the dolphin family. I had no idea. And did you know there are river dolphins? How cool is that.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/31 "2011-12-06T22:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **SenorBeef** : > You had your analogy right in the OP, you just didn’t realize how it applied to the subject matter. You said humans are primates, and apes are primates, but that doesn’t make humans apes. Humans _are_ apes. We are _not_ gorillas. And **jayjay** , I’m pretty sure I already knew that the pinnipeds are in Carnivora, and if I didn’t know, I should have. I should have said that some non-pinniped carnivores are arguably aquatic. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/32 "2011-12-06T22:41:23Z")
You’re right - my bad. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/33 "2011-12-06T22:48:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Conjugate the verb! Romanus sum Romanus es Romanus est Romani sumus Romani estis Romani sunt ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/34 "2011-12-06T23:03:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Would that be the Romi? Romanus eunt domum. _(People called Romans, they go house)_ > [@Guinastasia](#): > > They might be dolphins, but they’re also fucking bad-ass. They eat sharks – including great whites. I saw some nifty National Geographic-type footage of two Orcas playing tennis with a baby seal just off-shore; they were whacking it back and forth between them with their tails. The thing was getting 10 or more feet in the air. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/35 "2011-12-06T23:03:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Humans _are_ apes. We are _not_ gorillas. > > And **jayjay** , I’m pretty sure I already knew that the pinnipeds are in Carnivora, and if I didn’t know, I should have. I should have said that some non-pinniped carnivores are arguably aquatic. I considered after I posted that that I may have read the paragraph wrong, but by the time I realized, it was too late to edit. 🙂 Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/36 "2011-12-07T00:03:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Humans _are_ apes. We are _not_ gorillas. Not all of us are, anyway. \* Pretty women out walking with gorillas down my street From my window I’m starin’ while my coffee goes cold\* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/37 "2011-12-07T04:03:09Z")
No, don’t you apologize, **jayjay**. I had forgotten that when I posted, and you were correct to remind me. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/38 "2011-12-07T05:11:05Z")
Scientists enjoy those Latin names for animals because they can be so precise and specific. As discussed above, there tends to be confusion and ambiguity when people throw around the common names. – Are the dolphins a subset of whales? According to some usages, “whale” is the common term for cetaceans in general, with dolphins being described as “small whales”. – What is the difference between a dolphin and a porpoise? These critters belong to three families within the cetaceans: Delphinidae, Phocoenidae, and Stenidae. (Sea Life Park in Honolulu has, or had, some Steno dolphins. They are reputedly the smartest dolphins you’ll ever find.) In popular usage, the words “dolphin” and “porpoise” are commonly used interchangeably. Scientists more often refer to Delphinidae and Stenidae as dolphins, while Phocoenidae are called porpoises. The U. S. Navy, in their literature on dolphin research, calls them all porpoises, so some writers follow that precedent. In most literature I’ve seen, there are 48 distinct species, including orcas and pilot whales and those weird river dolphins. – What counts as a species? Depends on who’s counting. Some scientists are “lumpers”, who tend to group very similar types as the same species. For example, there are three sub-species of bottlenose dolphins (Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Ocean), yet these are commonly considered to be all one species. Certainly, they can interbreed freely if given the chance. (Marine World, formerly in Redwood City CA, had an elderly Pacific housed with some hot cutie female Atlantics. Some time after elderly male died, a baby dolphin puppy suddenly appeared one day, much to everyone’s surprise.) Then there are the “splitters” who prefer to distinguish more of those marginally-distinct types as separate species. For example, the Artic orcas and the Antarctic orcas look a little different, and some call them separate species (I think). I think the same is true of some _Lagenorhynchus spp._ (the white-sided dolphins, among others), that are either called the same species or not, depending on who’s writing about them. There is separate confusion about what a “seal” is. Those with externally visible ears are Otariidae, or “eared seals”, better known as sea lions. Those without externally visible ears are Phocidae, or “true seals”. But wait! There is also a group of “fur seals” (famous for getting shot by fur seal hunters or getting painted green by fur seal protectors) that have external ears. They are commonly called seals, but in fact they are Otariidae, and should really be grouped with sea lions! However, by all accounts, “dolphin” refers to a whole bunch of critters, just like “pine tree” does, and orca is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/39 "2011-12-07T05:20:55Z")
They’re the same species for all intensive porpoises. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199/40 "2011-12-07T05:32:47Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > They’re the same species for all intensive porpoises. Congratulations! You’ve just received the world’s first [All-Porpoise Greeting Card](http://sameindifference.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/multi-porpoise-card.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orcas-dolphins/605199.md?page=3)