# Are Orthodox Jews Allowed to Smoke? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 1, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105 "2000-06-01T13:19:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/1 "2000-06-01T13:19:17Z")
I was walkin’ down Madison Avenue last night and I saw this very Jewish guy getting off a bus. I’m not sure if he was Orthodox or Hassidic—he had the broad-brimmed black hat and the Mary Pickford sausage-curls. Anyway, he was lighting up a cigarette, which really struck me as odd. Don’t extremely religious Jews have similar edicts against smoking, drinking and other drugs as, say, Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/2 "2000-06-01T13:42:51Z")
Hmmmm…certainly not drinking. The Hasidim take their drinking cues from their Polish/Russian heritage; the men customarily sit down to dinner with a bottle of vodka on the table. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/3 "2000-06-01T14:33:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > I was walkin’ down Madison Avenue last night and I saw this very Jewish guy getting off a bus. I’m not sure if he was Orthodox or Hassidic—he had the broad-brimmed black hat and the Mary Pickford sausage-curls. Anyway, he was lighting up a cigarette, which really struck me as odd. > > Don’t extremely religious Jews have similar edicts against smoking, drinking and other drugs as, say, Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses? > \*\* Yes, Orthodox Jews can smoke. Some modern authorities have tried to prohibit it on the grounds that it is harmful (there is a commandment to guard yourself from harm) but this seems not to have been accepted by most authorities. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/4 "2000-06-01T14:34:19Z")
Re: Ike and the Hasidim - really?? I’d always understood the Orthodox Jews followed the custom of getting drunk only on Purim, since that - either by custom or religious law - was the only day they were allowed to do so. I always thought that Slavic Jews were Ashkenazy, and the Hasidim were a branch of thought/scholarship/religious observance. Vu sind di yidishe Dopers?? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/5 "2000-06-01T14:50:28Z")
Yes, the Hasidim are a small and deeply devout sect within Orthodox Jewry. Today’s Hasids descend from a movement started in 18th century Poland, which rebelled against endless Talmud study and over-intellectualization and advocated a joyous approach to daily life and worship…hence the presence of the booze on the dinner table. I’m not sure how non-Hasidic Orthodox feel about the custom, but they tend to regard Hasids about the same way an Episcopalian regards an Amishman. This stuff is all book-larnin’ for me, as I have only about a tablespoonful of Yiddische blood in my veins…I expect some of our Orthodox fellow-members will arrive shortly and ream me a new one. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/6 "2000-06-01T15:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > …I expect some of our Orthodox fellow-members will arrive shortly and ream me a new one. Ike\*\*: What tool does one use to “ream?” 😛 Regarding the OP, "Are Orthodox Jews allowed to smoke, the answer is… Yes and No. Heh. **Zev** posted: > [@](#): > > \*\* > Yes, Orthodox Jews can smoke. > > Some modern authorities have tried to prohibit it on the grounds that it is harmful (there is a commandment to guard yourself from harm) but this seems not to have been accepted by most authorities. \*\* To say that “some modern authorities” have proscribed smoking is an understatement. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, universally accepted as the leader of American Jewry in the 20[sup]th[/sup] century, ruled on this issue in the _Igros Moshe_ (lit. Letters From Moses), his landmark collection of responsa. He argued that, since scientific evidence exists which **proves** that smoking is harmful (where’s **Serlin**?), one is prohibited from starting to smoke. Of course, being a realist, Rav Moshe knew that his prohibition was not enough to get smokers to quit; the physical addiction is too strong to make such a prohibiton reasonable. Thus he only prohibited starting. I apoligize for not providing a cite - _Igros Moshe_ were never translated into English. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/7 "2000-06-01T15:23:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > To say that “some modern authorities” have proscribed smoking is an understatement. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, universally accepted as the leader of American Jewry in the 20[sup]th[/sup] century, ruled on this issue in the _Igros Moshe_ (lit. Letters From Moses), his landmark collection of responsa. > > He argued that, since scientific evidence exists which **proves** that smoking is harmful (where’s **Serlin**?), one is prohibited from starting to smoke. > > Of course, being a realist, Rav Moshe knew that his prohibition was not enough to get smokers to quit; the physical addiction is too strong to make such a prohibiton reasonable. Thus he only prohibited starting. > > I apoligize for not providing a cite - _Igros Moshe_ were never translated into English. > \*\* Yes, \*\* Sdimbert \*\*, I did understate the issue. I had not realized that \* Rav Moshe \* had issued a \* p’sak \* (ruling) against it. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/8 "2000-06-01T15:50:33Z")
And sdmibert comes through! As for the drinking, **Olentzero** , drinking is quite permitted, and even required at specifically joyous occasions (Sabbath, holidays, weddings, circumcisions, etc.), however, not to the point of drunkedness. Drunkedness is definitely condemned in the Torah and Talmud, though I don’t have an exact cite. It’s pretty clear, though, from I Samuel 1:13-16 that drunk people are equated with evil ones. On Purim, one is expected to drink more than normal, however, all the Rabbinic authorities say that one is supposed to get at most a little tipsy…not falling-down blotto. However, many people see Purim as a day without limits on drinking. The reason given for this tradition is because the miracle of Purim was achieved through wine. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/9 "2000-06-01T17:01:44Z")
Setting fire to a cigarette (or anything else) is, of course, forbidden on Shabbat. Of course, from the date of **Eve** ’s post, it seems clear that the incident in question _didn’t_ happen on Shabbat. Just for the sake of completeness, though. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/10 "2000-06-01T17:12:28Z")
**cmkeller** , you said: > [@](#): > > \*\* > As for the drinking, Olentzero, drinking is quite permitted, and even required at specifically joyous occasions (Sabbath, holidays, weddings, circumcisions, etc.), however, not to the point of drunkedness. Drunkedness is definitely condemned in the Torah and Talmud, though I don’t have an exact cite. It’s pretty clear, though, from I Samuel 1:13-16 that drunk people are equated with evil ones. \*\* To further your point, the Bible condemns Drunken behavior in a number of places. For example… From _Genesis_ 9, KJV: \*\* > [@](#): > > 18:And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. > 19:These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread. > 20:And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: > 21:And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. > 22:And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. > 23:And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. > 24:And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. > 25:And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. > 26:And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. > 27:God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. > 28:And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. > 29:And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died. > \*\* The commentators unanimously condemn Noah for his actions and blame him (at least partially) for the repercussions. Secondly, you said: \*\* > [@](#): > > On Purim, one is expected to drink more than normal, however, all the Rabbinic authorities say that one is supposed to get at most a little tipsy…not falling-down blotto. However, many people see Purim as a day without limits on drinking. The reason given for this tradition is because the miracle of Purim was achieved through wine. > \*\* I believe that the Talmud commands drinking on Purim for celebratory purposes. One must drink until he or she can not distinguish between Mordechai (the hero) and haman (the villain). ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/11 "2000-06-01T18:16:27Z")
There is a general Biblical injunction that one guard one’s health. In recent times there has been a movement by some to argue that this would encompass smoking. However this is an ambigous issue because 1) smoking is not an immediate danger but rather a long term risk and 2) it is a widely followed lifestyle. Thus it is difficult to make a ban on smoking without also banning fattening foods, etc. sdimbert cites Rabbi Moshe Feinstein as having ruled that one is prohibited from starting to smoke. This is actually a widely known (in the Orthodox community) misconception. Actually Rabbi Feinstein specifically permitted smoking in the work cited by sdimbert, with no distinction between starting or continuing. However he does suggest that it is not in the spirit of the abovementioned biblical injunction, even if it is within the letter. The suggestion by Ukelele Ike that “the [Hasidic] men customarily sit down to dinner with a bottle of vodka on the table” is an ignorant statement by someone who clearly has had no personal experience with Hasidim. I know many Hasidim, and have sat down to eat with many, and have never seen or heard of such a custom. It is true that vodka (or some other form of alcoholic beveraqe - depending on country of ancestry) is commonly drunk at festive gatherings, but the suggestion that a typical dinner would include any alcoholic beverage is nonsense. The suggestion that “non-Hasidic Orthodox Jews…tend to regard Hasids about the same way an Episcopalian regards an Amishman” is also false. (Disclosure: I am a non-Hasidic Orthodox Jew). Lastly, in general, the Jewish religion does not, from a moral standpoint, condone overindulgence of any sort, a stance shared with most religions. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/12 "2000-06-01T18:43:08Z")
**IzzyR** : Thanks for setting me straight. I am going to re-check the _Igros Moshe_ when I get home tonight to find out what I really meant. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/13 "2000-06-01T19:58:14Z")
From **IzzyR** : > [@](#): > > \*\* I am a non-Hasidic Orthodox Jew\*\* OK, then what’s your take on **Ike** ’s assertion on the origin of the Hasidim? Oh, and by the way - tzi redst di yidish?? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2000, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/14 "2000-06-02T15:13:06Z")
From Olentzero: “OK, then what’s your take on Ike’s assertion on the origin of the Hasidim?” Pretty much on target. It should be noted, of course, that “endless Talmud study” and “over-intellectualization” are subjective terms. (One minor quibble - Hasidim actually started off in Russia, but took strongest root in Poland.) “Oh, and by the way - tzi redst di yidish??” Avaddeh! Ver red nisht Yiddish? ---
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/15 "2000-06-03T21:50:34Z")
Smoking is becoming less and less acceptable in Orthodox circles. More and more rabbis have come out against it, including the very influencial (both politically and religiously) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who has even said accepting advertisements for cigarettes is prohibited. I have a booklet written by Rabbi Menachem Slae, who finds that smoking can violate up to 36 of Judaism’s 613 commandments. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2000, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/16 "2000-06-04T06:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > sdimbert cites Rabbi Moshe Feinstein as having ruled that one is prohibited from starting to smoke. This is actually a widely known (in the Orthodox community) misconception. Actually Rabbi Feinstein specifically permitted smoking in the work cited by sdimbert, with no distinction between starting or continuing. However he does suggest that it is not in the spirit of the abovementioned biblical injunction, even if it is within the letter. I believe that Rav Feinstein’s reasonings for the allowance of smoking is that if something is accepted in the community, it is not forbidden. As smoking becomes more and more unpopular in the US, I suspect that it will eventually be ruled forbidden. I have seen a responsa from a Conservative rabbi that does indeed say that smoking is _asur_ (forbidden). I wish I had a cite; this is from my memories of my reader from Intro to Halacha, which I no longer have. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2000, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/17 "2000-06-04T09:12:16Z")
Gee, guys, you think if you can dream up the whole thing about separate dishes from a line that LITERALLY and ONLY says-- you can’t cook the meat of a baby goat in his OWN mother’s milk-- you could come up with a prohibition on Smoking. And I’m smiling when I say that… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/18 "2000-06-04T16:23:17Z")
I did a little checking over Shabbos… As far as Rav Moshe’s “prohibition” of starting to smoke, **IzzyR** was right when he clarifies that Rav Moshe never actually said one is not allowed to smoke. But, the general consensus in the Halachic world today is that, since he wrote that in the 1960’s, if he had written it today, he **would have** prohibited smoking due to what we now know irrevocably concerning its ill effects. Of course, that is useless… Halacha works based on what is written, not what could’ve, would’ve or should’ve. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/19 "2000-06-05T17:24:08Z")
sdimbert: I also looked up the smoking stuff over the weekend. He has two responses about it, and the latter one was in 1981. He still said that, while people of spirit should avoid it, it cannot be halachically considered forbidden (because the danger to life is not immediate, and not certain. While it’s true that more smokers get lung cancer than non-smokers, not all smokers get lung cancer, hence, it does not reach the halachic threshhold for prohibition). Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105/20 "2000-06-05T17:36:35Z")
OK, Guys- CMK, CKDEXT, ZEV, SDIM: 'fess up- do any of YOU smoke? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-orthodox-jews-allowed-to-smoke/21105.md?page=2)