# Are Palestinians in Gaza a distinct ethnic group? Is pushing Palestinians out of Gaza "ethnic cleansing?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255 "2023-10-07T22:16:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/41 "2023-10-08T02:50:36Z")
Are you a Cubs fan? In all seriousness, no, i don’t think “Chicagoan” is an ethnic group. But i do think that a group of people who are politically isolated and culturally somewhat similar eventually become an ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/42 "2023-10-08T03:16:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I found this quote from Zuheir Mohsen: > > > The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Even if your question is worth asking, I don’t see the relevance of this quote. Why would it matter if the Palestinians are part of the same ethnic group as other Arabs? What would matter in this context is that they are a different ethnic group from the Israelis (or the majority of Israelis; there are Arab Israelis of course). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/43 "2023-10-08T03:16:20Z")
Anyways, this is all a completely irrelevant distraction, because it doesn’t actually matter whether Palestinian us a distinct ethnic group or if they are garden-variety Arabs. Either way what you propose is ethnic cleansing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/44 "2023-10-08T03:27:06Z")
“Ethnic cleansing” is charged language. I have asked what it means here but no one has really defined it (except me). Some posters keep using it because it is emotionally charged language. > Ethnic cleansing has not been defined and is not recognized as a crime under international law, [according to the U.N.](http://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.html) And in reality, the lines between ethnic cleansing and genocide are often blurred. > > “Your motivation may be that you want the people out, but if in doing that you intend to destroy the group, then it’s also genocide,” said James Silk, a human rights professor at Yale Law School. - [SOURCE](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/whats-the-difference-between-genocide-and-ethnic-cleansing) You are at war with some other group…a group which has been recalcitrant in finding some peace. A group which has diligently been trying to kill you for over 50 years it seems appropriate to try to stop them. To call it “ethnic cleansing” only muddies the water. Ethnic cleansing is undefined and protecting yourself from attack hardly seems to fit the bill either. Yes, not all in the area are combatants but the local population seems to only support those you are fighting. Again, how long do you have to let someone hit you before you can stop them? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/45 "2023-10-08T03:32:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > “Ethnic cleansing” is charged language. I have asked what it means here but no one has really defined it (except me). Some posters keep using it because it is emotionally charged language. I’ve even not used the term when asking you where, exactly, you intend for these 2.5 million people to be relocated to. And you still haven’t provided the barest whisp of an answer to the question. So to ask you yet again: Elephant in the room: clears them out to where? Okay, fine, lets forcibly remove 2.5 million people from their homes (note that word, their _homes_ ). Where, exactly, do you intend to relocate them to? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/46 "2023-10-08T03:33:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > “Ethnic cleansing” is charged language. I have asked what it means here but no one has really defined it (except me). Some posters keep using it because it is emotionally charged language. Because it’s not that fucking complicated. If you remove an ethnicity from a region, that’s ethnic cleansing. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ethnic cleansing has not been defined and is not recognized as a crime under international law, [according to the U.N.](http://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.html) And in reality, the lines between ethnic cleansing and genocide are often blurred. > > “Your motivation may be that you want the people out, but if in doing that you intend to destroy the group, then it’s also genocide,” said James Silk, a human rights professor at Yale Law School. - [SOURCE](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/whats-the-difference-between-genocide-and-ethnic-cleansing) This quote is about the line between ethnic cleansing _and straight up genocide_, not about the line between ethnic cleansing and doing nothing wrong. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You are at war with some other group…a group which has been recalcitrant in finding some peace. A group which has diligently been trying to kill you for over 50 years it seems appropriate to try to stop them. Agreed, it is appropriate for Israel to stop the group they are at war with, **Hamas**. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To call it “ethnic cleansing” only muddies the water. Ethnic cleansing is undefined and protecting yourself from attack hardly seems to fit the bill either. Israel fighting Hamas is not ethnic cleansing. Israel removing Palestinians or Arabs from Gaza wholesale **is**. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Again, how long do you have to let someone hit you before you can stop them? What does that have to do with removing the entire civilian population of Gaza from their homes? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/47 "2023-10-08T03:35:26Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Elephant in the room: clears them out to where? Okay, fine, lets forcibly remove 2.5 million people from their homes (note that word, their _homes_ ). Where, exactly, do you intend to relocate them to? This is the “blurry line” that your quote described @Whack-a-Mole. If you worry enough about where they go that they actually go somewhere, that’s ethnic cleansing. If you do what the Ottomans did to the Armenians and just drive them into the middle of the desert or sea and leave them there to die, then that’s genocide. And for the umpteenth time, **none of these are things that Israel would ever consider doing.** Unlike Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/48 "2023-10-08T03:35:46Z")
Look at a map. They will most likely be pushed into the Sinai (Egypt). No doubt, Egypt will not be pleased. That said, refugees from all across the Middle East make it to Europe. > The number of forcibly displaced and stateless people in Europe rose to 21.8 million by the end of 2022, including almost 12.4 million refugees, 1.3 million asylum-seekers, 7.2 million internally displaced people (IDPs) and 474,000 who were stateless. - [SOURCE](https://reporting.unhcr.org/operational/regions/europe) 2.5 million is hardly unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/49 "2023-10-08T03:36:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > “Ethnic cleansing” is charged language… That’s unresponsive to what I asked. Why would it relevant whether the Palestinians are a distinct ethnicity from other Arabs? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/50 "2023-10-08T03:37:31Z")
There is a reason @Babale and others use that language. War is bad. Ethnic cleansing is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/51 "2023-10-08T03:38:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There is a reason @Babale and others use that language. Thats still not responsive to what I asked. I can only conclude that you now realize that it’s completely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/52 "2023-10-08T03:38:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Look at a map. They will most likely be pushed into the Sinai (Egypt). No doubt, Egypt will not be pleased. Ah, so you’re right, if you just push them into the Sinai desert to die, that would _not_ be ethnic cleansing; that would be genocide. I guess that answers your question? /thread. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > 2.5 million is hardly unusual. Those refugees were created by the actions of scum like ISIS. You want Israel to act the same way? Luckily, Israel is a civilized country, so that won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/53 "2023-10-08T03:38:27Z")
Then I do not understand what you are asking. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/54 "2023-10-08T03:39:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > …Israel is a civilized country I like Israel a lot but they are not without their own ethical issues. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/55 "2023-10-08T03:39:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then I do not understand what you are asking… It was a very straightforward question. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/56 "2023-10-08T03:40:12Z")
I tried. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/57 "2023-10-08T03:41:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There is a reason @Babale and others use that language. Because it _accurately describes the proposal you made_, to ethnically cleanse all the Arabs out of Gaza. What the heck are you trying to imply? You do realize I’m Israeli, yes? And that I completely support Israel’s right to defend itself? But what you describe has nothing to do with defending Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/58 "2023-10-08T03:41:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I tried. Not very hard, apparently. Three quarters of the OP is dedicated to making the case that the Palestinians are not a distinct ethnic group from other Arabs. What difference does that make to whether ejecting them from Gaza would be ethnic cleansing or not? That’s a very straightforward question. Since you are unwilling to give the answer, I’ll answer for you: it obviously makes no difference whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/59 "2023-10-08T03:45:16Z")
As an Israeli you know better than anyone you are not all of one mind politically. Far from it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/60 "2023-10-08T03:46:27Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > What difference does that make to whether ejecting them from Gaza would be ethnic cleansing or not? Then why use the words “ethnic cleansing?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255.md?page=4)