# Are peccaries kosher to eat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493 "2005-10-29T19:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/41 "2005-10-31T02:15:02Z")
It’s my understanding that although, strictly speaking, the sciatic nerve is the only non-kosher part of a kosher animal, but that the religiously-accepted butchering techniques for removing that nerve are mostly lost to history, with the result that the entire hindquarters of the animal are generally considered forbidden by Jews. This would presumably include the testicles, even if the animal were properly slaughtered. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/42 "2005-10-31T04:50:59Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s my understanding that although, strictly speaking, the sciatic nerve is the only non-kosher part of a kosher animal, Not true - the fats around the kidneys and other organs are forbidden as well. (at least in cattle, goats and sheep - though not in deer and other wild ruminants) > [@](#): > > the religiously-accepted butchering techniques for removing that nerve are mostly lost to history, In the Ashkenazic world. I believe the Sephardim consider themselves to have a reliable tradition on how to do it. > [@](#): > > with the result that the entire hindquarters of the animal are generally considered forbidden by Jews. This would presumably include the testicles, even if the animal were properly slaughtered. While this part is true, I think that if anyone wanted to specifically save and eat the testicles, they would not find anyone who would dispute their kashrus based on the sciatic nerve. The main issue that leads to the disregarding (by kosher butchers) of the back half of the animal is the removal of the nerve from muscle tissue, not from that isolated organ. I suppose it’s a moot point unless kosher slaughterhouses discover a major market for Kosher Rocky Mountain Oysters. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/43 "2005-10-31T15:14:55Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > No part cut from a living animal is kosher. This goes way back to Noah being told (among a few other things) not to eat a limb torn from a living animal. If the testicles are from a bull slaughtered in the proper manner, they are kosher. The Whole Jewish Catalog has a series of helpful photos showing extra steps that must be taken when cooking a heart. It’s things like this that give Jewish Cuisine such subtleties. Ah, that’s what I thought. Good to know, if I’m ever in that situation, I can just claim to keep kosher. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/44 "2005-10-31T18:26:36Z")
Properly, things are kosher or not as determined by the rules set down, as interpreted by whichever body you trust for interpreting them. The ultimate decision comes from The Big Guy, the Authority for the Rules – They’re becvause He said so. As I’ve noted before, anthropologist Marvin Harris (who didn’t believe in this himself) sought to explain dietary laws on the basis of his “Cultural Materialism” theories, and claimed that the non-kosher animals were determined first, by other criteria (which werer probably not consciously chosen – they were practical choices), and the reasoning behind the “kosher” laws came afterwards, withy results not entirely satisfactory to modern classifiers. See his books, especially **Good to Eat/The Sacred Cow and the Abominable Pig** for details. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/45 "2005-10-31T18:37:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > As I’ve noted before, anthropologist Marvin Harris (who didn’t believe in this himself) sought to explain dietary laws on the basis of his “Cultural Materialism” theories, and claimed that the non-kosher animals were determined first, by other criteria (which werer probably not consciously chosen – they were practical choices), and the reasoning behind the “kosher” laws came afterwards, withy results not entirely satisfactory to modern classifiers. See his books, especially **Good to Eat/The Sacred Cow and the Abominable Pig** for details. In terms of practicality, what I find most remarkable about the laws is that a desert tribe, in a region where food must often have been in short supply, would exclude so many of the available food animals, both domestic and wild. For mammals, the only ones really permitted are domestic cattle, goats, and sheep. Many perfectly edible domestic animals are excluded, including not just pigs but also camels, horses, donkeys, and rabbits. And although deer and antelope are technically included, as a practical matter they would not be available as food. Since they could usually only be obtained by hunting, this would make them non-kosher since they would not have been slaughtered in the prescribed way. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/46 "2005-10-31T19:39:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s my understanding that although, strictly speaking, the sciatic nerve is the only non-kosher part of a kosher animal, but that the religiously-accepted butchering techniques for removing that nerve are mostly lost to history, with the result that the entire hindquarters of the animal are generally considered forbidden by Jews. Not true- there is a process called [porging](http://www.myjewishlearning.com/daily_life/Kashrut/Overview_Kosher_Food/Kosher_Meat.htm) that removes the sciatic nerve from the hindquarter cuts of meat. It’s difficult and expensive to do, so it’s usually more economical in a country with a large market for non-kosher meat to sell the hindquarter meat as non-kosher meat. > [@cmkeller](#): > > There is a practical difference: Bottom line is that the technical-sounding rule allows Jews to determine the permissibility of eating unfamiliar species (bison, anyone?). The listing of species as in the case of the birds does not allow for such determination. It’s been done, though. Turkeys are native to the New World, so obviously they wouldn’t be mentioned in the Torah. But the rabbis did rule that turkeys can be kosher. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/47 "2005-10-31T19:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s been done, though. Turkeys are native to the New World, so obviously they wouldn’t be mentioned in the Torah. But the rabbis did rule that turkeys can be kosher. As a matter of fact, that ruling was extremely controversial, and to this day, there are groups of Jews who won’t eat turkey. But it is true that most Rabbis ruled that it was similar enough to known kosher fowl that it can be permitted on that basis. Nonetheless, if a species of bird so divergent from traditionally known species were to be discovered, there’s no Rabbi that would permit it (kiwi, maybe. penguin? hornbill? toucan? I wonder what other birds are out there that no reasonable analog could have been known to the Jews of Biblical or Talmudic times). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/48 "2005-10-31T20:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > But it is true that most Rabbis ruled that it was similar enough to known kosher fowl that it can be permitted on that basis. Nonetheless, if a species of bird so divergent from traditionally known species were to be discovered, there’s no Rabbi that would permit it (kiwi, maybe. penguin? hornbill? toucan? I wonder what other birds are out there that no reasonable analog could have been known to the Jews of Biblical or Talmudic times). What’s the ruling on Ostrich, which I can buy in my local supermarket? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/49 "2005-10-31T20:15:40Z")
Ostrich is not Kosher. I believe that the bird referred to in Hebrew as “Bas Yaanah” (one of those listed in Leviticus as non-Kosher) is an ostrich. No doubt other ratites would fall into the same category. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/50 "2005-10-31T20:19:18Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Nonetheless, if a species of bird so divergent from traditionally known species were to be discovered, there’s no Rabbi that would permit it (kiwi, maybe. penguin? hornbill? toucan? I wonder what other birds are out there that no reasonable analog could have been known to the Jews of Biblical or Talmudic times). Except, don’t the rules on bird eating just talk about the birds you’re not allowed to eat (owls, storks, ravens, hawks, etc.)? So wouldn’t any bird not listed be ok? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/51 "2005-10-31T20:29:41Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Except, don’t the rules on bird eating just talk about the birds you’re not allowed to eat (owls, storks, ravens, hawks, etc.)? So wouldn’t any bird not listed be ok? [Here’s probably more than you want to know on this subject](http://www.kashrut.com/articles/turk_part1/). The bottom line is that we’re no longer sure what species the birds the Torah refers to are. The later Rabbis came up with [identifying features of kosher birds](http://www.kashrut.com/articles/turk_part2/). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/52 "2005-10-31T20:39:39Z")
Captain Amazing: > [@](#): > > Except, don’t the rules on bird eating just talk about the birds you’re not allowed to eat (owls, storks, ravens, hawks, etc.)? So wouldn’t any bird not listed be ok? In theory, yes. In practice, it’s a lot harder, not just because of translation questions as Anne Neville mentions (example: “Nesher” is popularly translated as “eagle”, but there’s some evidence that in Biblical/Talmudic Hebrew it really refers to the gryphon vulture) but also because the Torah tends to think of animals in categories/families rather than species in the modern taxonomic sense, and whether or not a bird belongs to the category of one of the forbidden species could be difficult to determine. The Talmud does list some general features of kosher vs non-kosher birds that can be useful for travelers in isolated situations (where there are no familiar birds to eat, how to determine whether some of the unfamiliar choices are better than others), but given the above-mentioned issues, a kosher-observant Jew is well-advised to not experiment with non-traditional bird meat. ---
**Author:** ![SGenoway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@SGenoway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SGenoway)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/53 "2022-07-29T18:14:47Z")
There are 4 species called peccary. The Texas & Arizona variety, the Collared peccary (D. tajacu), commonly known as a Javelina, DOES chew a cud, has multiple stomachs (3) and has completely split hoof. So though peccary in Texas, Arizona and Mexico are Kosher, but the other 3 species which occur only in Central and South America are not. Now the Kosher Peccary does share range into Central and South America, so you have to know how to differentiate them if you live there. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/54 "2022-07-29T19:07:40Z")
So we’re not allowed to eat meat cut off from an animal while leaving the animal alive, even if the animal is kosher. But can we eat meat from zombie animals?? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/55 "2022-07-29T19:23:32Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, @SGenoway! Please note that this thread is 17 years old and that many of the original participants are no longer around to see your reply. We don’t mind old threads like this being revived as long as you have something new or significant to contribute, so no biggie there. Also note that we do tend to refer to old threads that have been revived like this as “zombies”, so don’t be surprised if you receive a few zombie-related comments. Again, welcome, and we hope that you enjoy your time here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/56 "2022-07-29T20:13:23Z")
Ah, so that’s what the “javelinas” in my Age of Empire games are. Which also resolves the question of turkeys, since, according to the game, they’re a kind of sheep. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/57 "2022-07-29T20:44:29Z")
I am definitely using “kosher peccary” to refer to javelinas from now on. Although is sounds like the result of a bris… ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/58 "2022-07-29T20:54:30Z")
Along the same lines, we can’t cut off someone’s testicles and feed it to them . . . because that just wouldn’t be kosher! ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/59 "2022-08-01T02:34:29Z")
Most of the dietary rules seem to me like ancient OCD. “The mashed potatoes shalt not touch the peas, it is an abomination to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493/60 "2022-08-01T13:27:16Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So we’re not allowed to eat meat cut off from an animal while leaving the animal alive, even if the animal is kosher. “a sheep this good, you don’t eat all at once.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-peccaries-kosher-to-eat/328493.md?page=2)