# Are people assholes if they shop on Thanksgiving? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284 "2014-11-21T19:29:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/123 "2014-11-25T14:19:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Can we all agree that people who shop on Thanksgiving _and behave like assholes to the retail workers (and fellow shoppers)_ are assholes? ^ THIS. Oh, and by the way - I’m off Monday and Tuesday this week, even if I am working the holiday. It’s not like I have no time off. I actually have a couple hours fewer scheduled than usual, although with the holiday pay I’ll still have a larger than usual paycheck. Yes, for some people working the holiday is a hardship. Not for everyone. The biggest thing is that asshole shoppers are assholes regardless of the day of the year. There’s no excuse for that at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/124 "2014-11-25T14:20:49Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Well, if you want a TV for $199 and that’s the time they’re selling TVs for $199 (guaranteed three in stock!) then the opportunity cost for taking a stand by staying home is higher. You can fairly say that they care more about buying a TV for Christmas than the retail workers but I think it’s worth noting that they’re there for the supposedly limited sales and not because they just love shopping on Thursdays. Which isn’t any different than what I’ve stated. We get the situation we deserve, in that these places continue to extend the shopping season, because the demand is there. If people really saw issue with it, they’d vote with their time and wallets. But at the same time, the limited sales don’t _have_ to occur on Thursday, as if that’s some ideal day to sell TVs. That same $199 TV can be made available the day after, and people would line up all the same (as they traditionally have), to get one. This is just an extension of the holiday season, because it’s a greater window to make money ahead of the next guy/company. Enough people are okay with it, that it stands and continues to overlap or push its way earlier and earlier, every few years. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m poor and I’m getting time and a half for working on Thanksgiving. > > If they hadn’t asked me to work that day I would have begged to, because the input of cash into the household is worth my working that day. Strictly out of curiosity, do you think the situation is exploitative at all? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/125 "2014-11-25T14:59:08Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > I’m poor and I’m getting time and a half for working on Thanksgiving. > > > > If they hadn’t asked me to work that day I would have begged to, because the input of cash into the household is worth my working that day. > > Strictly out of curiosity, do you think the situation is exploitative at all? In MY particular case…? No. Back when I lived in non-retail corporate America I would explicitly let management know I was happy to work the Christmas-through-New Year’s week so others could take that time off. I’ve worked many jobs where I volunteered to be the one to work weekends or holidays. As I said, _in my family_ it was _normal_ to work the holiday because so many of us had jobs that required it. We often offset a holiday a day or two to accommodate that. Some families have a tradition of everyone getting together on a particular day with certain customs. MY family has a tradition of accommodating people required to work on holidays, and it wasn’t because we were all retail drones but because folks were police or worked in a hospital or played music professionally at other peoples’ parties. As I have also said, my employer is very explicit at hiring that they are a 24/7 operation. Thus, someone has to work weekends and holidays. No doubt they were ecstatic to have me show up and declare I would work any day and any shift, _preferred_ to work weekends (I like my days off to be during the Mon-Fri part of the week), and was happy to work holidays for time and half. It’s not exploitative for _me_ because I tend to seek out those schedules and have a long family tradition of that being normal life. It certainly is a problem for other people. Which is why I am happy to work those days so others don’t have to do so. Yes, I think it CAN be exploitative in some circumstances… but not all. Yes, some days are more stressful than others at work, and some times of day, but if it was all fun they wouldn’t need to pay us, right? All jobs have some suck attached to them. Working retail is FAR from the worst work situation I have been in. Frankly, I find the pretentious declaration of Hobby Lobby that they give their employees Sunday off for “family and worship” to be more offensive - what if your Sabbath is Saturday (Jews) or Friday (Muslims) or some other day? What if your other family members do work Sunday and you’d rather be off a different day? Nice way to exclude anyone who isn’t Christian. But that’s getting a bit off topic. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/126 "2014-11-25T15:12:19Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > It would be nice if the stores either made holiday shifts voluntary or increased the amount (double overtime, triple?) of pay to make it worth it for people to volunteer Socialist! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/127 "2014-11-25T16:34:22Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > Which isn’t any different than what I’ve stated. We get the situation we deserve, in that these places continue to extend the shopping season, because the demand is there. No, the stores are artificially _creating_ the demand by selling very limited quantities of things at reduced prices. If the department stores were open on Thanksgiving but with the same prices they’d had every other day, do you think anyone would show up? Enough people to warrant paying the overtime and turning the lights on? Of course not. So they draw you out by saying “Well, you _could_ get this $199 TV if you skip out on dinner or stay home and pay $650 for it tomorrow. Your choice…” It’s not as though the stores were forced into this position, they created it deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/128 "2014-11-25T19:36:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, I think it CAN be exploitative in some circumstances… but not all. Yes, some days are more stressful than others at work, and some times of day, but if it was all fun they wouldn’t need to pay us, right? Actually, it’s a bit of a tangent, but yes, yes they would. No pay=no money, no money=no customers, no customers=no profits. It’s not JUST about how much fun a job is or is not. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/129 "2014-11-25T20:10:00Z")
I will give grocery stores that are open on Thanksgiving (and Christmas) a pass. There’s always _something_ you forgot for the big meal… As for “big box” stores opening on Thanksgiving, I don’t see the real problem in opening on Thanksgiving night - say, 6 PM to midnight - but then, in my family, Thanksgiving dinner usually ends by 4. The people who eat late can shop (and work) early, and the people who eat early can shop (and work) late. It’s only a problem if somebody is forced to work - especially if they had Thanksgiving plans that get ruined because the boss demands that you work particular hours. Here’s a thought; find a way to match shoppers to workers based on why they’re there. For example: Aisle 1 - “So how was your Thansgiving / what are your plans?” “Well, the stuffing was burned, again / Dinner with the folks, and my brother’s family, and my sister-in-law’s cousin’s neighbor’s ex-wife’s new boyfriend’s secretary…” Aisle 2 - “Man, it’s good to get out of that house!” “Tell me about it! Who came up with the idea of nonstop football?” Aisle 3 - “letsgetthisoverwithineedtobesomewhere” “dontweallthatllbeseventysixfifty” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/130 "2014-11-26T07:11:13Z")
I think it should be a rule though if you have to work a holiday, you can say whatever you want to customers without getting in trouble. Makes it worth the while. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/131 "2014-11-26T07:55:10Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > You don’t think this is maybe a _little_ hyperbolic? > > Again, how do you feel about people who go shopping or out to eat on the weekends? Surely they are assholes too? I mean people who work weekends are obviously also being exploited, but they know their only alternative is a life of crime, so they keep clocking in at the mall. All those unscrupulous shoppers keep the system afloat. You think you’re joking but unless they get a special exemption, stores can’t open on Sunday in France (except for family owned businesses). There’s in fact a big debate about this currently. And I think indeed that people who state hee that supermarkets should be opened on Sunday for their convenience are assholes. So what you think as an outrageous example isn’t outrageous at all for me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/132 "2014-11-26T08:04:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So, please, do NOT think all of us poor retail drones are unhappy to be there on Thanksgiving. I’m sure plenty of them are pretty happy with the overtime. The problem is that obviously a lot of businesses will pressure into doing it also those workers who are very unhappy with it (or just mandate it). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/133 "2014-11-26T13:55:24Z")
Obviously the answer is the make Thanksgiving retail work voluntary. If Best Buy can get enough “So glad I’m away from my family” or “Needed the overtime so bad” people to man the place when 500 people come in looking for cheap electronics, go ahead and open up. Not being serious of course but I do suspect a lot more places would stay closed. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/134 "2014-11-26T14:07:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > In MY particular case…? > > No. > > Back when I lived in non-retail corporate America I would explicitly let management know I was happy to work the Christmas-through-New Year’s week so others could take that time off. I’ve worked many jobs where I volunteered to be the one to work weekends or holidays. […] > > Yes, I think it CAN be exploitative in some circumstances… but not all. Yes, some days are more stressful than others at work, and some times of day, but if it was all fun they wouldn’t need to pay us, right? All jobs have some suck attached to them. Working retail is FAR from the worst work situation I have been in. Thanks, like I said, I was really just curious about your stance. I mostly agree with your idea. > [@Jophiel](#): > > No, the stores are artificially _creating_ the demand by selling very limited quantities of things at reduced prices. If the department stores were open on Thanksgiving but with the same prices they’d had every other day, do you think anyone would show up? Enough people to warrant paying the overtime and turning the lights on? Of course not. So they draw you out by saying “Well, you _could_ get this $199 TV if you skip out on dinner or stay home and pay $650 for it tomorrow. Your choice…” > > It’s not as though the stores were forced into this position, they created it deliberately. So they’re artificially creating the demand, but real people are showing up and spending real money, and continue to do so earlier and earlier over the years. I’m not going to play semantics, that’s demand. On one end you have the consumer willing to buy, on the other, the store who is more than happy to extend the lucrative holiday season, while attempting to outdo competing businesses. Some people have even expressed their willingness to work on these days. The two (three) have to come together, in order for this to function, so it can’t just be hinged on one entity/group. And just the same, consumers aren’t _forced_ into the position to buy a $199 TV on Thursday, just as they aren’t forced to buy every sale item in a store on any other given day. They prioritize and choose to. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/135 "2014-11-26T14:40:49Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > So they’re artificially creating the demand, but real people are showing up and spending real money, and continue to do so earlier and earlier over the years. I’m not going to play semantics, that’s demand. There’s no “playing semantics”, I’m just saying the simple fact: If the deep sales weren’t on Thanksgiving there would be no Thanksgiving retail shopping (not enough to warrant turning the lights on and paying the overtime anyway). No one was clamoring to be able to stand in line for three hours on Thursday afternoon waiting for a store to open. There’s a demand for cheap shit, not a demand for cheap shit to be sold _on Thanksgiving_. They’re showing up “earlier and earlier” because that’s when the stores are putting the cheap shit on sale in limited quantities. > [@](#): > > consumers aren’t forced into the position to buy a $199 TV on Thursday Of course not. They’re given the option with the opportunity cost that this will be their one chance to do it (whether accurate or not, this is how the stores market it). Yes, they wind up picking a cheap TV over dinner with the family but there’s no legitimate reason why they should have to be making that choice on Thursday over any other day in the first place. It’s completely created by the stores. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/136 "2014-11-26T15:47:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yes, they wind up picking a cheap TV over dinner with the family [snip] And that’s really the bottom line. The rest we can agree to disagree with, but these are conscious choices people are making (and usually over non-essential items). Aside from certain cases, which **Broomstick** touched on when I posed a specific question, this thread has revealed that there are enough people on either side, that it’s near pointless to split hairs about it. If you find the practice of shopping on Thanksgiving despicable, then don’t do it. I don’t. If enough people feel the same as you do, the retailers will take notice and won’t hesitate to adjust their sales tactics to better reach the will of the consumer. If anything is certain in this country, it’s that they’ll find another way to make a dollar, be it before Halloween (my area), Thursday afternoon, 12 midnight, or the Monday after. So long as there is someone who _must have_ a $199 TV bad enough, they’ll cater to them. Where you choose to place the responsibility, creates a distinction without a difference, to me. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/137 "2014-11-27T07:41:50Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Now personally I’m unlikely to shop on Thanksgiving, because crowds and shopping are annoying and I have other things I’d rather do, but lately I’ve seen many people and media outlets up in arms about the terrible injustice committed against retail workers by stores being open on Thanksgiving and the assholes who shop that day. Some people I know even plan to permanently boycott the offending stores. What am I missing here? What makes retail workers above working on a holiday while so many other jobs must also be done on this day? Law enforcement, hospital workers, hotel workers, etc. don’t get an automatic day off, so why should a Target worker? I’m all for people shopping on holidays, and I think that those who have a problem with it are colossal boors and hypocritical. I don’t see any of them pissing about people working on Sundays, which keeps the whole family from getting together and enjoying time together. What’s the diff? I also think that those who complain about ‘corporations, Walmart, etc…’ forcing employees to work on those days would not think a thing about getting gas for their vehicles on a trip that they take on holidays, or having a family member fly in on Thanksgiving morning, forcing the airport employees to work, or running down to the store for ‘just a loaf of bread’, etc… Employees who are forced to work on holidays are what many people call “employees”. These self-appointed guardians of public social health are just using holidays as their weapon against the boogeyman whom they identify with ‘the corporations’. If all of the companies gave the employees Thanksgiving off, these same guardians would blame them for abusing the poorimmigrant/unmarriedmother/unionmember and forbidding them to make a living just because ‘the Man’ decided to force his religion on the weak/poor/disadvantaged. ---
**Author:** ![highrollinwooded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/71c47a/32.png) [@highrollinwooded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/highrollinwooded)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/138 "2014-11-27T21:02:13Z")
I am a retail worker, and thankfully my employer has enough decency to be closed Thanksgiving.I think the majority of the uproar is related to the lack of separation of the holidays.Thanksgiving is Thursday, Black Friday is Friday.This line should NEVER have been crossed,but it was.Having to work a retail job on Thanksgiving is straight up bullshit,and it would take everything in my power not to be openly hostile at the selfish materialistic assholes that feel a need to shop for made in China junk on that day.I would also like to point out that at my place of business,which is 90% part timers,they are NOT paid extra for working holidays… Only full timers.I am sure a lot of other retail businesses are the same…so yes…if you shop on Thanksgiving, I will think of you as an asshole! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/139 "2014-11-27T22:54:45Z")
At my employer, even the part-timers get extra pay for working a holiday. So YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/140 "2014-11-28T22:49:02Z")
My experience last night tells me that next year the stores will open even earlier. The mall opened at 6pm. I arrived for work at 11. It stayed very busy until about 2am or so, and then remained steady until about 5. Then it died for an hour until the day shift shoppers started to arrive, and when I left at 8, it was as busy as it was when I got there. It’s working for retailers, and so it will continue. Unfortunately, when people shopping for calendars at 3:30 am say to me, “If it weren’t for assholes like us, you wouldn’t be here!” I’m not allowed to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/141 "2014-11-29T08:03:06Z")
In a few years, they’ll be open on Christmas – mark my words. It’s like, nobody wants to give anyone a day off, when it comes to making money. (Cue all the same arguments) ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284/142 "2014-11-29T10:49:06Z")
Agreeing with **Frank** that Thanksgiving was a successful retail day. Target had a good day. > [@](#): > > Target Corp (TGT.N) CEO Brian Cornell told Reuters he was encouraged by early indicators for a holiday season that “has moved from an event on Black Friday morning to a multi-day event.” > > “The consumer clearly enjoys shopping on Thanksgiving,” Cornell said, noting the retailer was selling 1,800 televisions per minute nationwide between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. last night. [Huffington Post](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/28/black-friday-shoppers_n_6237190.html) Thanksgiving night looks like the new Black Friday. By Friday, the crowds had already thinned out, unlike Black Fridays in the past. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-assholes-if-they-shop-on-thanksgiving/705284.md?page=8)