# Are people being unreasonable in criticizing the government(s)response to Katrina? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678 "2005-09-02T02:25:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/41 "2005-09-02T15:22:38Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > A quote from the Mayor of New Orleans. > > :mad: :mad: Is that seriously a quote from the Mayor? That’s…both surreal and refreshing at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/42 "2005-09-02T15:25:53Z")
If ever a man was justified in being angry and frustrated, it is the mayor of New Orleans. With his frustration, I can overlook his bringing race into the equation. I hope that he’s wrong about race being a factor in the rescue. But I can’t say for sure that he is. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/43 "2005-09-02T15:27:29Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Is that seriously a quote from the Mayor? That’s…both surreal and refreshing at the same time. That is surreal … _so_ surreal I’d need to see cite before I believe it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/44 "2005-09-02T15:36:49Z")
[Here’s a story about the interview, but it leaves out the racial comments](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1762200,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/45 "2005-09-02T15:41:04Z")
The [Mayor of New Orleans](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index.html), interviewed on CNN. There’s a link there to the audio file – worth a listen. I think it’s been edited for content, because I didn’t hear all of the rants quoted above. I think what did hear adequately expresses the same sentiments, though. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/46 "2005-09-02T15:44:38Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > I’ve read this before but is this true? The impression I’ve been getting is that most of the news you got the last few days was from reporters who went there before the storm, to report on the storm. Certainly one of the more active ones I’ve seen on Fox was there being blown away by Katrina when it hit, I saw him being knocked down by a gust of wind in earlier footage. > > Many of the roads and bridges have been washed away or are blocked by whole houses that washed upon them. > > There’s a lot of failure going on for sure, and the flooding could probably have been prevented, but let’s not exaggerate by saying you can just go ahead and drive up there. I don’t think it is an exagerration to say that the US military should be able to get to the New Orleans Convention Center within 4 days of a natural disaster. Hell, they could get to the New Orleans Convention Center within 4 days if it were in the middle of Red Square. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/47 "2005-09-02T15:50:50Z")
I saw a report on the news hour yesterday (on Global Canada). The Canadian government has repeatedly offered support to George Bush, and George Bush hasn’t accepted it. Why wouldn’t he? Then I thought “isn’t George Dubbya trying to get out of paying Canada back a couple billion dollars that the US grabbed from illegal softwood tariffs”? How sad would it be if that’s why he wasn’t accepting our help, because he was afraid it would justify even further paying back the money that’s owed to us? I hope this is the downfall of this lunatic that your poor country has as POTUS. MtM ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/48 "2005-09-02T15:51:43Z")
I fully understand that the path of destuction is enormous, but on 9-11, the National Guard was in New York within a matter of hours. This is an absolute shame, and things didn’t have to get this bad. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/49 "2005-09-02T16:36:44Z")
Earlier this year, this very scenario was brainstormed by representatives of just about every agency that would be involved in providing relief. It was called [Hurricane Pam](http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/newsrelated/hurripamends.htm). Apparently, a lot of the very things that are happening in the Gulf Coast right now were predicted. (Except for the Warlords of New Orleans thing.) But since this exercise only happened a few months ago, there hasn’t been enough time (nor funding) to implement the necessary changes. The big problem with coordinating efforts is the lack of communications. About the only equipment working down there right now is satellite phones - not something that’s standard issue to every responder. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/50 "2005-09-02T16:39:49Z")
This is just the sort of thing that even libertarians believe falls within the authority of the Federal Government. The Federal Government is responsible for handling disasters of this magnitude, disasters which are obviously far beyond the coping abillity of the state of Louisiana, much less the city of New Orleans itself. If relief efforts aren’t going well–and I think there are few to none who think they are going well–than absolutely it is proper, even necessary, to criticize the Government for its failure either to adequately prepare for or to cope with the disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/51 "2005-09-02T16:52:45Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, lordie, but then we’d have to see the reality show, “Redneck and Sharecropper—Disaster Heroes!” They hate each other but the situation forces them to work together. Grudgingly they do so even though Mohammed is really sick of Joe’s ‘Kwikee Mart’ jokes and Joe is really sick having to wait for Mohammed to stop and pray five times a day. The action ratches up and everyone almost comes to blows when Joe tells Mohammed that he has sabotaged Mohammed’s compass so that he’s been getting East wrong for the last seven prayer sessions. Then, through some wacky contrivance they end up in a disabled elevator a dozen stories up. Somehow the water is rising inside their elevator and the elevator’s cable is slowly burning away. They develop a new admiration and respect for each other as they combine their efforts to escape the burning/flooding elevator car. As they walk off into the sunset Mohammed tells Joe that he knew his compass had been sabotaged the whole time and was still praying in the right direction. Oh, and he peed in Joe’s canteen yesterday. The show ends with an 70’s-style freeze-frame of Joe’s disgusted face while Mohammed and the rest of the crew are all falling out laughing. -Joe, different Joe…I don’t even own a canteen ---
**Author:** ![lorinada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5e925/32.png) [@lorinada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorinada)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/52 "2005-09-02T17:05:37Z")
A lot of people here are questioning the same things [I’ve been questioning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6534149&postcount=324). People _ARE_ getting in _and_ out - even this board has posts evidencing that. If plain ole people can do it, then why can’t anyone of any authority do it? The reporters surely were there before it actually hit. But they’re getting food, water, changes of clothing _somehow_. If Fox and CNN can manage it, how come the federal government can’t? New Orleans is not THAT big of a city, and there aren’t THAT many people still stranded. I mean, when you compare all the resources of the federal government, is it that hard to feed 100,000 (which is the highest estimate I’ve seen so far) within, say, 48 hours by dropping MREs from helicopters? This is not a criticism, it’s an honest question. I undertand it won’t be done within the first 24 hours, but we’re going on our _FIFTH DAY_ now. Helipcopters flying over the city dropping MREs and bottled water - how much of a logistics nightmare is that, _really_? Especially if what everyone’s saying is true - that this disaster should have been, and was, predicted: It apparently was not a matter of _if_, but of _when_. I am no fan of Bush, but since I am a conservative I still try to give him every benefit of every doubt I can…but I can find no support for the man in my soul over this. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/53 "2005-09-02T17:33:12Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > What’s this I’ve been hearing about necessary improvements to the dikes having sat on various high-ranking people’s desks for some time now? > > Also, a few people have made the observation “well, they would send in the National Guard, but they happen to be otherwise occupied at the moment.” Can it be shown that required numbers of National Guards are sapped by their being in Iraq? I’ve seen figures suggesting that the states in question still have 2/3 or more of their Guard troops at home. “It’s the Iraq war!” is a lame excuse. The United States has a very large military; there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the USA right now between the reserves and the regular force. If they can’t be deployed in a timely fashion the problem is organization, not resources. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/54 "2005-09-02T17:43:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ve seen figures suggesting that the states in question still have 2/3 or more of their Guard troops at home. > > “It’s the Iraq war!” is a lame excuse. The United States has a very large military; there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the USA right now between the reserves and the regular force. If they can’t be deployed in a timely fashion the problem is organization, not resources. I agree that the troops remaining should have been deployed in a timely manner. However, having large numbers of National Guard in a foreign country does make a difference, according to the NY Times [editorial](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/opinion/02fri1.html) that I excerpted in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6536306&postcount=35) . The National Guard are local people familiar with the needs of their particular area, and trained in dealing with emergencies in their area. Furthermore, their regular jobs tend to be in the police / fire / emergency medical professions. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/55 "2005-09-02T17:53:59Z")
There is plenty of blame to go around. At this point, I don’t think anyone has looked especially good, and that includes the mayor of New Orleans. Race-baiting and blaming others is a good way to get the focus off the fact that his own performance has been piss-poor. In any event, trying to come to some sort of definitive conclusion at this point is ridiculous. It will take months before we have a clear enough picture to start measuring out who gets how much blame, and how much just falls under the category of “act of God, nothing could have been done.” ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/56 "2005-09-02T17:55:09Z")
And, quite a lot of the National Guard units that have returned from Iraq have left their heavy equipment there (or had it destroyed in attacks without being replaced.) Yes, this is a catastrophic event. Yes, some of the asshats-in-charge are saying incredibly stupid things. And it seems the press is taking more than it’s normal share of glee in prominently displaying these idiototic remarks. Yes, all of the agencies could be better coordinated, trained and equiped. But there is a lot of unreasonable criticism coming out of the area. Supplies are being dropped out of helicopters because _some of the people they are trying to help have been shooting at the helos._ Does this not make sense? The aircrews want to help, and in fact are landing, evacuating people, and taking off in parts of the striken area where they aren’t being shot at. There are five ships from Norfolk on the way. But you can’t get these things supplied enough to help any in a situation like this in less than a day. And as for the carrier (USS Truman), it takes two days to get that thing ready for sea if it’s been sitting at the pier. That’s why it left yesterday instead of on Wednesday with the otherr ships. The _Comfort_ and the _Mercy_ are big slow ships. They travel slower than just about anything out there. But they’re on the way. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/57 "2005-09-02T20:06:00Z")
A “me too” for [this guy’s discussion](http://www.xoverboard.com/blogarchive/week_2005_08_28.html#001436) on why the response to Katrina is entirely worthy of political analysis. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/58 "2005-09-02T23:30:21Z")
I think the responsibility has to rest first with the city of New Orleans, then the parish, then the state, and finally the federal gov’t. That’s why we have local gov’ts, to take care of local issues. I don’t think the city of New Orleans was as prepared as they should have been, and it looks like a lot of buses that could have been used to evacuate [were instead abandoned](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015). It takes time for something as big as the federal gov’t to get moving. After all, not all the resources are standing by, waiting to rescue New Orleans. Compare Mayor Guiliani’s response after the Sept 11 attacks to Mayor Nagin’s response to Katrina. Has Nagin actually done _anything_ to help the situation? Yes, this was a disaster of biblical proportions. Of course, the country and the world will help. But I would take a long hard look at the gov’t of New Orleans, and find out why they weren’t more on the ball. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/59 "2005-09-02T23:37:00Z")
BTW, about 75% of the total population of the Army, both active duty and reserves, was not 7000 miles away in the Middle East. [They are right here in the states](http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200509020719.asp). And about 7500 National Guard from four states were headed for the hurricane zone within 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678/60 "2005-09-02T23:49:01Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-people-being-unreasonable-in-criticizing-the-government-s-response-to-katrina/319678.md?page=4)